Need vs Choice; which is driving your business? – She Leads She Thrives Podcast Episode 007

She Leads She Thrives_007 Need vs Choice_Podcast | Need vs Choice
She Leads She Thrives_007 Need vs Choice_Podcast | Need vs Choice

In this new episode, Shannon explores what drives big decisions in business, like what to invest in. 


Inspired by a conversation between women in business, the key question explored is wether your decisions are being made from a place of need, that is driven by scarcity, lack and FOMO.


Or are your big decisions, and particularly the money related ones, like who to hire as a coach, what programs or other things to invest in, made from a place of choice.


This episode will definitely get you thinking and includes a framework to support your decision making so it’s intentional, considered and in support of you.

Notable quotes

Need vs Choice | She Leads She Thrives_007 Need vs Choice_Podcast Quote | Shannon Dunn Business Coach

Episode Transcript


She Lead She Thrives, the home of inspired conversations, practical and creative wisdom, expansive leadership and business insights, abundant Bragaudacious moments of celebration and useful info you can actually do something with.


You’ll hear about mindset marketing, money, magnetism, self awareness and the Thrive Factor Framework, it’s Archetypes and more. Amplify your role as a leader, a self led soul. Tap into your effortless success zone. Turn your ingeniousness and wisdom into profitable income streams.


From solo shows to guests you’ll definitely want more from, there’s something for every ambitious ingenious soul. 


I’m Shannon Dunn, a true OG of the business coaching space, with an obsession with thriving. You are so welcome here. Let’s dive into today’s episode.


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This episode was brought to you by the Thrive Factor Coach Certification offered by Thrive Factor School. The certification is a unique immersive experience into professional coaching, and developing proficiency using the Thrive Factor Framework and its 12 female-centric self leadership archetypes. Being a Thrive Factor Coach offers a unique gift of personal transformation your clients will be filled with gratitude for.


This is a genuine opportunity to engage in a world class personal and professional training experience and become part of a community of impact makers, as a licensed Thrive Factor Coach to find out more email


Shannon  01:57

Last week, I tuned into what I found to be such an interesting conversation with other women in business. The focus of it, or the topic that came up was about realizing that they didn’t need to invest in help, support and learning. Instead, they were discovering that they were making different kinds of decisions when investing in say a coach or a mentor or a program of some kind. I loved what I heard and continued the conversation with the client the next day, which was such a valuable richness. 


Shannon  02:32

It made me think about the difference between investing in something because you think you need it or believe you need it, and choosing to invest from a place of considered intention. So with a certain outcome in mind. Welcome to She Leads She Thrives the podcast I’m your host, Shannon Dunn. And I am as I always will be excited and grateful to be back with a new episode. I also want to say at this point how blown away I am with a response to all the episodes on the podcast so far. Every day, there are new downloads and listener numbers increasing and expanding across the world. So thank you so much for tuning in.


Shannon  03:13

 Now, the realization of the significant difference between believing you need support and choosing to invest in support was quite a profound one for me. I was actually surprised that it raised itself as a topic with such force. So I immediately added it to my priority list. And here we are very quickly unpacking this more in this episode. And one of the many things I want to do is share with you some of the reasons I see and I feel that drive need and how to shift to a place of choice instead, if that is what you wish to do. 


Shannon  03:54

Let me kind of also be clear on a few other things related to this. From my perspective, I don’t coach because people need me. I coach because people choose to intentionally seek support and guidance because they desire to grow with that guidance with that, that mentoring with coaching. Not because they don’t believe they can do it for themselves. But because you know, the reality is growth can be tough, can be lonely at times, and create a dynamic fueled with second guessing questioning uncertainty. And sometimes all it takes is having someone you trust, who has a different experience and expertise and perspective to you to share where you’re at to bounce an idea off and someone who can remind you just how phenomenal you are to amplify the growth and anything you want to experience. 


Shannon  04:51

There really is a vast difference in investing from a place of need and investing from a place of choice. Need is frequently when it is belief driven is in, I need this. It can frequently be a scarcity, lack or fear driven response, mostly the fear of missing out kind of fear, the FOMO stuff. It can fester in spaces of judgment, comparison and uncertainty. And it can grow like wildfire where there is lack of trust and self, in others. And even at a universal level. It’s a contracting experience on an energetic and emotional level, not an empowered response at all. And we’ll definitely explore what drives us to believe we need further on in the podcast today.


Shannon  05:47

Investing from a place of choice is the move of a self led soul. It can come more from a place of desire, belief, trust, and expansion. It’s an empowering response, say to an invitation to work with others or learn from others. And in my experience, it tends to play out as a very different overall experience for someone when you invest from that place of intentional considered choice. Rather than need where there’s lack driven. I’ll share more on how you can shift from need to choice when making your investment decisions later in the episode, if that’s something that you feel is relevant and useful for you. 


Shannon  06:34

But first, let us explore what drives the collective to believe that we need. When I thought about this, one of the first things that came to mind for me, was a reflection of our global education system. And to me, it feels like a lot of our education system is designed to reinforce that you don’t know the answers.


Shannon  06:57

It frequently contributes to beliefs formed in childhood that teach us that we need someone else, or something external, to guide us to the answers and solutions. I know this is a bold statement to make. And I know not every person has had this kind of learning experience. But that was literally the first thing that came to mind when I thought about what is driving the collective to believe we need. 


Shannon  07:24

And then reflecting on that thought that came up or that realization that came up. I also then reflected further on why I see and hear so many people saying they need help to find what they are seeking. Whether that is answers, solutions, experiences, outcomes, feeling states, a whole lot of other things we can add in there. 


Shannon  07:46

I was able to see that the coaching and mentoring space has often been responsible for grooming us to need them. So let me explain this a bit more. The need strategy, let’s call it that, is alive and well- dare I say thriving – preying on your wobbly beliefs, your perceptions of failure, your comparison driven judgment and criticism of yourself. And there’s other things we could add in there. And as a collective, who genuinely want to succeed and create, impact and earn amazing money, we fall into the web cast by the need strategy perpetuated across the business landscape. It can happen to any of us at any point in time. 


Shannon  08:35

And I see a lot of coaches and consultants and mentors, driving a need strategy in their marketing, focusing on highlighting what you’re missing, or what you don’t want to miss out on, or both. And to me, I see that as an old school pain point driven strategy. And ones that I believe are really outdated and unnecessary. I’m 100% not a fan of these kinds of strategies at all, they’re the kind of things that I put into a bucket I would recall, or would call repulsion marketing. For me, they create a lean back effect, not a lean in one. Sometimes they create such a lean back effect that I know personally, I’ve literally felt repelled by them. In a good way, though, because it’s been a way for me to recognize what is for me, and what I don’t want to be a part of. 


Shannon  09:35

When people lean into these kinds of strategies, they can end up investing from a place or a space of perceived need not choice. Now as I said before, I coach people, not because they need me, but because they choose to invest in support. I adore nothing more than welcoming clients who are intentional about what they want, and know that they do not know need me or anyone else to be the success that they desire to be, they trust themselves, they act from a place of personal power, and choose to invest in support from abundance, not lack or scarcity or FOMO. 


Shannon  10:14

They want to work in a collaborative way. They want to learn things maybe that I know that they don’t. They hold themselves accountable, take responsibility, and understand they are already successful. And what they’ve achieved, even if it’s not where they want to be just yet. The difference is that they choose to seek support, they don’t make decisions based on belief of need. 


Shannon  10:43

Now, I know that in my early days in business, I invested from those kinds of spaces and places that the needs strategy focuses on. And for a period of time, I did it over and over until something shifted, and I understood why I was making decisions in that kind of way. And then I decided it was not the way I wanted to grow or expand or to be supported by others. I’ve also been caught in the web of need, even in the most recent years in my business. Because you know, we our human reality kicks in the life is situations and challenges the world takes over. And we can get distracted and kind of off center, if you like from where we were headed and what we really believed. But my realization and choice to shift how and when I invested wasn’t something necessarily to be cured with that just awareness that there wasn’t working for me way back. In all honesty, that initial decisions to invest in the situations that I can now see were perhaps more needs driven than choice driven, felt like they were choice driven.


Shannon  11:56

But then I found myself a part of conversations or group calls or experiencing weird or uncertain responses to questions. Listening to suggestions or strategies that were ones that were definitely not right for me. And in that, I could also begin to see that some of what had driven those investments, those choices to invest in a certain kind of support, were needed driven beliefs. 


Shannon  12:23

I’m going to share four different beliefs that I know rose up for me in the last few years. Some of them more than once, and share kind of a shift to a realization. Beliefs that were things that I was able to eventually see through and redefine. 


Shannon  12:46

So the first one was kind of thing that, you know, went through my head. She said being in her space, and learning from her would be expansive. And yet, in reality, that experience was like so many other empty experiences. And then I was able to challenge myself and sort of say, really, do I need someone else to expand me? Sometimes, yes.


Shannon  13:15

But investing because I thought I needed someone to expand me as opposed to choosing to work with someone who could expand me and support me to expand on my own terms in my own way – very different. 


Shannon  13:29

Another belief driven thing that definitely led to an investment, that not that I did not regret at all, but did not stack up how I wanted it desired and hoped that it would is she said we’d get personalized support and an abundance of it. And yet, in that situation, the strategies that were highlighted for me, and told to me from a very, were shared with me in a very personal way. I heard that particular individual share with every other person in the mastermind. So they weren’t personalized at all. So I got to thinking, you know, isn’t really enough time or even interests on her part to actually support me to be me? Or was it easier in her role in that dynamic, to focus on what worked for her and guide us to believe that would also be the key to our success and money? Got me thinking, got me curious.


Shannon  14:34

 Another belief that definitely influenced an investment decision. She’s grown so much and is making so much money so surely, I can learn how she’s done it. Now, the reality that came from that investment was that the individual never shared any of the true shifts growth and success strategies that they used. at all. it was told or shared that that would be the case. And that wasn’t the reality. But that got me to a place of questioning, really? Do I need her strategies? And her how or do I actually need if we want to use that word, to trust myself and focus on my own path. 


Shannon  15:26

Then the final one I want to share with you. She’s so cool. Or you can inject a whole lot of other words there. But you know, she’s so cool. I think how love hanging out in her space that was coming from someone who was really focusing on proximity and the importance of, you’ll become like me, you’ll achieve what I have, by just hanging out with me. And yet, the reality was that her call if you want to call it that was exclusive, not inclusive. It was exclusively for people who were paying a lot more than me. And really wasn’t my cool or wasn’t cool on my on my own anyway, it wasn’t I cool I should say, on my own anyway. So both my internal world and the external world shifted so much for me. So in these last couple of years or so, where these things have been part of my belief systems and had driven some need based decisions that I actually thought were more choice based. 


Shannon  16:31

When I trusted fully before, doubt crept in, where I believed I was self led and making decisions for what I wanted, some form of kind of other things rose up and took over. The noisy external world influenced me with it subliminal constant message driven by fear and lack. 


Shannon  16:54

So there comes a time for a lot of us. In fact, I believe this can happen for everybody, and it can happen more than once, where we shift from need to choice. Earlier this year, after making an investment that I had believed was choice driven, I actually realized I’d been caught in this need web. I was reeled in by my own doing, which, you know, I can laugh at now. It was quite a confronting realization at the time. And then that realization fueled something in me a desire to shift then my decision making experiences when it comes to investing in support. I’m so grateful for the depth and the breadth of my self awareness and understanding of my own recognition of personal leadership. So thank you to my Thrive Factor Archetypes, which is the predominant lens through which I examine everything.


Shannon  17:54

 It took a reality check, to shift from that place of need to choice. For example, you know, I don’t know everything in business, but I also don’t need to know everything, to amplify my income and success or create a certain lifestyle or work with clients I love working with the most.


Shannon  18:12

I remember that the ways right for me, and not the ways that work or worked for others. This realization is not a new one. It’s not. But it’s one I’d forgotten, despite coaching clients to this realization for themselves all the time. My reality check also revealed that some of my investment choices were driven by a need to belong, to a community, to a place where there was say, collaboration and celebration for everyone. And everyone was welcomed and included, no matter their reality. That’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with having that need. 


Shannon  18:49

I also realized that there are genuinely times when supporting myself through investing in others, coaching teaching programs, was an empowered move. There are legitimate times when we do perhaps need to learn something or be guided in a certain way. But there is a big difference between making a choice based on need where the need is a false belief, as opposed to needing something and then consciously and intentionally choosing to act on that. It really comes down often to whether you are deciding and investing from need or choice as to how you’re going to move forward. And I believe this is why I was so intrigued by last week’s conversations. 


Shannon  19:35

Because of my own experiences, and because of all the needs strategy that I see flying around the internet.  I was also able to see, listening to what was being shared, that choosing to invest versus needing to invest can be an incredibly liberating experience. I love there was a couple of women particularly leading that conversation but also by being able to on screen observe the reactions of the others that were listening in. For me, it was a listening and taking notes as I was tuning into what was being shared. And then I also had a real clear connection, and was able to see how the shadow of each of the Thrive Factor archetypes played into feeding the need driven decisions and investments when they get made from that place.


Shannon  20:30

 The shadow rises out when the ego is activated. And our ego is not always working collaboratively with us for our best intentions. Even though if you have a conversation with, a chat with your ego, it had probably have you believe that it is. 


Shannon  20:47

Now I wouldn’t be honoring creating the Thrive Factor Framework and its archetypes or 12 archetypes if I didn’t consider things through their lens, actively practicing that always reveals so much for me. That in itself, tuning into my archetypes, recognizing the impact the way things play out and each of the archetypes so I can support my clients is an act of self leadership 100%. Let’s go through some examples though of the archetype, so you can get a sense of that before I talk to you about some ways that you could shift from need to choice if that’s where you’re at and what you’d like to do. 


Shannon  21:28

But perhaps the easiest archetype to talk about first is the Mentor Teacher. This is an archetype I have and an archetype that is consistently high in terms of how many of my clients have this archetype. I know when this part of me is not in a trusting relationship with my knowledge and wisdom that I can falsely believe ,”I don’t know enough” for whatever situation that I’m in. With this belief activated, I can invest in more programs.


Shannon  22:14

More programs to teach me something or say to qualify me in when I have misguidedly believed or thought that I still didn’t know I needed to know more of in order to progress forward. 


Shannon  22:28

When my Inspirer Believer archetype is energetically depleted, say because I might not be sleeping that well or I’m doing too much, or I’m ignoring the rest that I know nourishes me, maybe not eating in a really great way, getting enough water. These are all things that we experience, or maybe putting in an exceptional amount of effort to cheer and support others, which is a classic act of the Inspirer Believer. In these times this archetype can fall into an external belief that she’s not the inspiration she needs or desires to be. And the result of that can see her deciding to invest because she thinks she needs another or others to motivate and energize her to inspire her, which is not true at all. It’s another example of the need strategy, and it’s a web taking hold. 


Shannon  23:21

When my Liberator Engineer archetype, feels trapped and closed in or stuck frustration amplifies and can derail her freedom weaver gift. Then this part of me can easily forget that I have everything I need to expand beyond my self imposed walls and barriers. And that can and certainly has led to investing in things to fulfill my needs, feel free, expansive and able to boldly weave my own pathways of success, often fueled by a belief that what worked for someone else would be my solution too, but not for this rebellious deal with my own way kind of soul is not the solution at all. 


Shannon  24:04

And when I see clients with a Mediator Diplomat archetype, not honoring their personal truth, I see them investing in support, believing it’ll create some kind of credibility that they believe they need to justify the value they desire to provide through their business. When they also have the MentorTeacher archetype, this can amplify in some very unhealthy and inefficient and contracting ways. 


Shannon  24:32

When I see clients with the Queen Ruler archetype, not stepping into their leadership potential, and instead believing they aren’t worthy of leading on the scale, that they might desire to make impact that, they can ruthlessly react to situations, executing or removing people experiences and things from their lives to create a sense of control. They can invest in solutions that they believe will position them as a the regal leader, that credible somehow special individual that they know themselves. To be, but rarely is that the reality or the solution, they don’t need that kind of solution or outcome at all. 


Shannon  25:09

So this is an insight into the need driven responses of only five of the 12 Thrive Factor Archetypes. Each has their own response when she’s in the space of need, where need as her driver. She’s not in her effortless success zone. She’s more likely to be an ego and her shadow self is activated. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. But without awareness of that you can find yourself stuck on kind of a loop of doing the same things you say you don’t want to do or it same, experiencing the same things you don’t want to experience over and over again. 


Shannon  25:41

When the ego rises up, and the shadow is activated, in the Thrive Factor Coach community, we refer to this as your potential challenges of your archetypes have become actualized. This is also true. When that happens for an individual she’s not in aligned belief with the core of her Thrive factor. She’s likely in the space of striving, hustling, anything but thriving, disconnected and not understanding what is actually means. Her effortless success. So even though she’s experienced it and understands how it feels, feels distant and unattainable. The reality is focusing on intentionally activating one or more of her defined innate strengths. And that’ll shift that immediately. 


Shannon  26:36

So that leads me to explore that, you know, how do you shift from need to choice, if that’s where you want to go? So aside from consciously and intentionally using the strengths of your Thrive Factor Archetypes, if you know them, they’re always my primary go to is, I think it’s helpful to consider. Like, what I see happening is a shift occurs in you become more aware or conscious to your reality.


Shannon  27:02

And in reflecting on this, I was able to see a few phases or shifts in perception and understanding that I see arise when this happens. They might not necessarily happen in this exact order, you might not give them the same names as I have. But I hope this helps you to understand and recognize for yourself this is a self awareness, expansion, opportunity. 


Shannon  27:24

So often the first phase, as I’ve seen it or recognized it is a realization that past say investments or decisions have not led to what you’d hoped. They’ve fallen flat, disconnected due from who you are, or you who you desire to be. They felt say frustrating. And not because necessarily they challenge you. You want it to be challenged and challenge was fine. But they weren’t what you wanted or expected on or what desire them to be. Even though you showed up to things you did the work, you were on the calls. And yet you might be feeling like you went backwards or sideways and in stagnated instead of growing. So you’re in a place now of this, you know, feeling stuck where you are, and maybe even feeling disenchanted with everything. 


Shannon  28:16

I’ve seen this happen a lot in the coaches I know, particularly this year, where things that they’d subscribe to So, so so much like with a huge commitment, now feel like they none of it makes sense. When we go from realization, I feel like realization can lead to something I’ve defined as ignition. The time when there’s a fresh momentum and energy come it comes alive. And you decide to do things differently moving forward. You recognize that the pathway is a people’s strategy. So learning the decisions haven’t yielded results for you. You understand that perhaps you actually do have the solutions. You do have the answers or strategies or belief, whatever it is that you were believing somebody else was going to give you or provide for you. You get to a place of realizing you don’t need some external influence at all. You may sense you desire support, but you no longer need it. And that right there is monumental. That is where the shift is really taking hold.


Shannon  29:30

And next we move into the space of what I’ve kind of defined as recalibration. It’s a commitment if you like to actioning differently, to being more discerning, to focusing on what’s really important for you, not someone else, for establishing or reestablishing a fresh relationship with trust and belief in yourself in others in the universal guidance that you can tap into if you choose. This is recognition that the shift from need to choice has occurred. It’s like an awakening things or people you’ve previously felt or connected to don’t make sense to you anymore. You may shift away from, you know, online or in person communities, because you don’t need them, like you may have believed you did previously. 


Shannon  30:23

You might not even want to be a part of those communities anymore. And that in itself can be both unsettling, but equally empowering, centering and grounding. Because from here, you choose differently when investing in support, and really for all the things it’s not so much a “how” process to follow, but an awareness process to be mindful of, that can alert you to the internal shifts that are taking place within you. 


Shannon  30:53

But if you’re the kind of soul who likes something more tangible to work with, I have something for you. I’m very much that individual. And I did share that I was going to where I could share real tangible, useful things that you could do on this podcast. So I’ve created or really, I’ve reflected on a set of questions that you can check in with before, say making a decision about investing in support. Now I’ve used one or more, or all of these often, you might only ask a couple of the questions, or maybe you ask them all. I read each question out loud, and I can’t tune in to how I feel like you does it flow in my voice? Does it feel like an expansive, really good question to be asking myself? I trust the responses that I get. And I know which questions then lead me to the clarity, and show me whether my potential decision is need or choice driven?


Shannon  32:00

So those are the questions I ask in priority. And I asked in the space of curiosity. I’m curious to see what comes up. I’m intrigued to understand what’s going on and more discerning with the action I take in response to this questioning. So let me share the questions with you. 


Shannon  32:22

Now if you want to keep a copy of these, the best or really the easiest way to do that will be to head to my website, where there will be a complete transcript of this episode on my blog. Just look for episode 007. Should we call this the James Bond episode? Not really. 


Shannon  32:39

But questions to consider when investing support. And as I said, these are in no particular order. This is the just the order I wrote them out. Let me read them to you. 


Shannon  32:47

First question:  what is it about this opportunity that I’m drawn to? What is it about this opportunity that I am drawn to? 


Shannon  33:00

The second question:  what do I believe I will get from this investment? 


Shannon  33:08

 The third question to consider: what do I know I will really get? 


Shannon  33:18

This might feel like it’s a hard one to answer. But this is where you can tune into your wisdom and intuition. What do I know really get? And often the answer to this has nothing to do with the promises or benefits that is laid out in someone’s sales page or in their social media content. Tune in for what’s right for you. 


Shannon  33:38

The fourth question: when I think about investing in this opportunity, how do I feel? So when I think about investing in this opportunity, how do I feel? 


Shannon  33:50

The fifth question: when I think about NOT investing in this opportunity, how do I feel?  


Shannon  34:03

Number six: what need is this opportunity fulfilling in me? 


Shannon  34:11

Again, go with the first instinct answer that comes to mind without intellectualizing it. Just go with what comes up and trust that that is a great internal guidance and support for you. 


Shannon  34:23

 Because the reality is everything fulfills some kind of need. But as we’ve shared throughout this episode, making a choice because you have a belief driven need and consciously making a choice because you know that this thing is right for you in this moment is very different.


Shannon  34:51

 And the last question: am I investing from fear lack FOMO scarcity comparison? You too whichever one of those makes sense to you, or am I investing from desire and from a place of conscious and intentional choice? 


Shannon  35:26

 I like to journal on these questions, I find that writing really works for me, and I’ve been a writer from when I was a child. And sometimes the art therapist in me likes to use color to draw and make sense of things. You could also talk through them if you prefer that approach is speak out loud or talk with someone that you trust.


Shannon  35:49

 But you do what feels best for you. There’s no right or wrong with this. But if you feel that you want a framework to support your decisions, as you’re learning to check in with yourself, then these questions could be an amazing thing to try working with. 


Shannon  36:08

Now, as a bit of a disclaimer, to wrap up today’s episode, I want to say that if you’ve listened and recognize that you’ve been investing from the space of need, that’s okay. I’m not professing that choice is better. But if the need things are not working for you, this may give you a context of why. And also alert you to the fact that something shifted. And that there are other options out there, there are different ways to do things. I know for me, the need space isn’t useful or helpful. It’s not me leading, being a self led soul. And that’s what I choose to be. So understanding the space of choice in my decision making, particularly around the investments I make is the right path for me and it may be for you.


Shannon  36:59

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. I’m really loving, creating and sharing in this way and I’m grateful for the growing audience that we have around the world to share with so thank you for tuning in. And if you have any questions at any point in time about anything or something to share, please reach out to team Thrive Factor and myself. is the best place to do that. Have a beautiful rest of your day and I look forward to being back with a new episode. Perhaps a new solo episode, perhaps a new guest very soon.

Thank you

Thanks for tuning into today’s episode. You are so valued and appreciated.


Aside from this podcast, my favorite place to hang out online is definitely Instagram. So come and join me shannon_thethrivefactor and know my DMs are always open for genuine questions and connections.


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Meet host Shannon Dunn

Shannon Dunn, CEO here at Thrive Factor Co is your host of the brand new She Leads She Thrives podcast.
Having hosted two podcasts previously, Shannon loves an opportunity to share her musings, wisdom and lived and learned experiences about a whole range of topics to support the ambitious, ingenious souls of the world to thrive in business, leadership and life.
An OG of the coaching world, Shannon believes thriving is a birthright and with the creation of the Thrive Factor Framework® and it’s 12 distinctive and female centric Archetypes, she’s on a mission to ripple as much thriving as possible across the world.

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