1st Birthday Series Part 2 – She Leads She Thrives Podcast Episode 54

Ep 54_She Leads She Thrives Podcast | Shannon Dunn Business Coach perth
Ep 54_She Leads She Thrives Podcast | Shannon Dunn Business Coach perth
It’s our first birthday week at She Leads She Thrives and to celebrate I caught up with some of your favourite guests from the first few months of the podcast. We chatted about the past year and where they are now. It was easy to choose each of these superstars because not only were there episodes in the most downloaded list, but they are stellar souls who are so amazing at what they do, generous with their time, and were truly excited to join me again to celebrate our first birthday.

In this second of 3 episodes, you’ll hear me chat with Homaya Amar, Laura Dick and Jesika Liston. Check the rest of the show notes for links to their original episodes because if you missed them the first time, I know you’ll want to tune in now. And if you heard them the first time around, there’s so much wisdom to learn all these months later.

A birthday gift for you!

Access the special offer of 50% off all 
  • 3 options for Thrive Factor profiling
  • Business strategy sessions 
  • Thrive Factor Coaching

to celebrate our first year live in the podcast space. 
Use the code SLSTbirthday50. The code is good for all of October 2023!

The numbers of each offer are generous, but limited so if the links don’t work, they’re sold out. Here is where to access this rarely seen savings.

Connect with past episodes featuring today’s guests – these episodes are also where you can read their bio’s.
  • Homaya Amar – episode 19 – Genuine magic of a spiritual business
  • Laura Dick – episode 17 – Rest your way to business success
  • Jesika Liston – episode 12 – Swagger your way to success

Connect with today’s guests on their socials

Homaya Amar
Laura Dick

Jesika Liston

Episode Summary

Homaya Amar

8:03 In the last year, what’s been your greatest personal evolution?

10:35 What’s gone on behind the scenes for you this past year in business that maybe we haven’t seen on your socials?

13:29 What if anything, do you wish you’d known a year ago that you know now as the business leader that you are?

20:25 Connect with Homaya


Laura Dick

25:47 In the last year, what’s been your greatest personal evolution?

29:13 What’s gone on behind the scenes for you this past year in business that maybe we haven’t seen on your socials?

32:19 What if anything, do you wish you’d known a year ago that you know now as the business leader that you are?

36:12 Connect with Laura


Jesika Liston

39:59 In the last year, what’s been your greatest personal evolution?

47:35 What’s gone on behind the scenes for you this past year in business that maybe we haven’t seen on your socials?

53:39 What if anything, do you wish you’d known a year ago that you know now as the business leader that you are?

59:42 Connect with Jesika

Episode Transcript


She Lead She Thrives, the home of inspired conversations, practical and creative wisdom, expansive leadership and business insights, abundant Bragaudacious moments of celebration and useful info you can actually do something with.


You’ll hear about mindset marketing, money, magnetism, self awareness and the Thrive Factor Framework, it’s Archetypes and more. Amplify your role as a leader, a self led soul. Tap into your effortless success zone. Turn your ingeniousness and wisdom into profitable income streams.

From solo shows to guests you’ll definitely want more from, there’s something for every ambitious ingenious soul. 

I’m Shannon Dunn, a true OG of the business coaching space, with an obsession with thriving. You are so welcome here. Let’s dive into today’s episode.

Visit ThriveFactorCo.com/links for all the latest news and offers.

Welcome everyone to our celebration series for our first birthday of She Leads She Thrives. So across three episodes, I’m going to be chatting to previous guests from the early months of the podcast. These are guests whose episodes still rank amongst the most downloaded in our very first year of sharing the most incredible conversations and information and wisdom with you. 


Team Thrive Factor and I thought it was a brilliant opportunity to check in with them now and ask a series of reflective questions so they could share more of their wisdom with you. And it’s been such a joy creating these conversations to bring them together and to share them as part of this birthday series. 


Now before we begin with the first of our feature guest conversations for today’s episode, I also want to say a huge thank you to you, our listeners. Without you there wouldn’t have been as much fun and joy and celebration in this past year. I really adore and I hope this shines through, but I adore the podcast medium for connecting with a global audience. But it also makes the work and the energy that goes into every episode that much richer when we know there are people actually out there listening and downloading our episodes every week. So thank you, I truly hope that you’ll be a long term listener if you’re not already, and that you’ll continue to share our episodes and with your business and your leadership community. 

So a huge big love to you all and if you still don’t know who I am because you are brand new to She Leads She Thrives. This a little final reminder before we dive into the first of our conversations in this special birthday series. I’m Shannon Dunn, I am the host of She Leads She Thrives. I’m a longtime business and self leadership coach. And I just love being able to bring more wisdom to the world. So thank you for your time today and have a magical day wherever you are.




Shannon Dunn  03:17

Welcome back, everybody. I am so excited. I think I actually say this too. But I always say how excited I am because I am, to welcome back another one of our guests that had Homaya, how do we even describe like the way that your podcast episode went off, which was in January 2023. So earlier this year was our 19th episode for She Leads She Thrives. But it was the first one that went over 1000 downloads in a really short space of time. And I know a big part of that was because of the way you so beautifully shared it and so loved…I remember us messaging and telling you how many downloads that was getting and your excitement and enthusiasm about that. And excitement about the feedback that your community was sharing with you for sharing your story in this kind of a way. I think the topic I had for the conversation as a podcast title was about leading a spiritual business. But it was such a pivotal sharing for you wasn’t it of your story and how you came to be who you were and what you do. And so it was just such a gorgeous thing, honestly on this side of the podcast to see your, I think shock in some regards, that it was so well received.


Homaya Amar  04:39

Yes, of course because you know, you live your life and you’re not like a billboard, telling the story of your life all the time and as you are of service, as I am in service most of my days, like most of the day, then my story and my own personal journey is somewhere behind the scene and then suddenly that gets an attention and also gets my attention and the balance of the way that I look at life. And the balance that the way people are looking at me, is really shifting. And I think that this is what shifted to my community, which I’m serving. Some of the people in my community, I’m serving more, I don’t know, than 15 years or some 20 years. And they know me in a certain aspect and never have seen that. So they could hear a glimpse. Yeah, but because it’s a service, I’m serving them. I’ve rarely speak about myself.


Shannon Dunn  05:34

Yeah. And I think that would be a thing that so many of us in business share, we often don’t get the opportunity to actually share our story in the way that you did. And I, honestly, I felt so in a place of privilege that you trusted me to share, you know, to sit there and  for us to have this conversation, record it, and then share it around the world for others to listen to. 


Shannon Dunn  05:57

So I’m going to ask you the same questions. I’m asking every one of our guests that we’re getting back as part of this First Birthday Celebration Series, where I’ve been inviting incredible women back where your episodes have really made a profound impact in those first few months of She Leads She Thrives. And as I said, yours was the first one that went to over 1000 downloads in its first week, it was even more than that, and continues most weeks ever since then, to still get downloads, sometimes big numbers. So I see that someone’s obviously found it and shared it, or you’ve shared it when you’ve been talking somewhere else or doing something else, or just you know, a few downloads each week. So it’s still a topic that people are interested in, that leading a spiritual business and then finding out about your story. But before we get to the questions, I’d like you to do a very quick introduction to yourself. So people that are listening and not familiar with you, and haven’t yet heard that episode, can get to know who you are.


Homaya Amar  06:55

So thank you, and again, congratulation, and very quickly to share. So my name is Homaya and I am currently living in Portugal for some time. And I relate to myself as a spiritual leader, as a spiritual teacher. I started my healing and spiritual career 20 years ago, by really hands on healing, like, you know, traditional, and I’ve trained by shamans and masters all around the world for a very intense, long period of time.  I started teaching, also, again, like 20 years ago, more or less, and I now work either with individual or with groups, on their self awareness and integrating divinity, integrating their higher self, living with soul led purpose, with soul-led presence. So I bring all this aspect that brings potency, power, clarity, peace, ease, joy to your life, this is what I’m doing, if we can say that shortly.


Shannon Dunn  08:03

Yeah, it’s I hear you talk about the diversity of what you do. And what you’ve bought in together, it makes me think of a like a big melting pot of all this beautiful alchemized pieces all kind of just merging in together in a beautiful way. So I love it. Okay, so first of the questions in the last year, what would you say has been your greatest personal evolution, so not necessarily in your business? We know that personal evolutions reflect in our business, but what would you say has been your biggest or your greatest personal evolution?


Homaya Amar  08:35

Oh, my God. One or 30?! Yeah, how many I can go with? I feel that I had a lot. I feel that I worked my inner work have accept both accelerated and went very, very deep. So there were aspects in my inner journey that were receiving a very ambivalent, I would say, attention from within me, which is very much about leadership, about power, about success, about what is possible and how to merge together spirit and matter in a very beautiful and still aligned way. And I feel that a lot of inner work where we’re going into that direction, and I must admit that in the last few days, when people are asking me, really this week, when people are asking me like, how do I feel and so on. I’m saying that I feel stronger than ever, like I feel truly…. I feel divinity is so awakened within me and I feel that that is the biggest aspect and there’s a lot that comes with it. 


Homaya Amar  09:51

So we are speaking about expansion and an embodiment of of power and presence. But at the same time, it’s very much about defining my standards about clearing my boundaries, clearing my space, re-adjusting, re-adjusting how I am in my body, in my life, in my relationship. Outside, if people would look at my Instagram, for example, they will scroll, they might see, you know, like, something that opened up, but it’s more a very, very beautiful deep inner work. No one sees the tears and the journaling. Right, no one see that. You see the final photo and you think, Oh, this is how she woke up in the morning? 


Shannon Dunn  10:35

Yeah, no, no one says the behind the scenes, which is takes me to my next question, because I’d love to know, what has actually gone on behind the scenes, maybe beyond what you just shared in the past year that we haven’t seen on your social media?


Homaya Amar  10:52

Again, so much the inner work, a lot of community work, a lot of relationship that we’re matching, and are matching the frequency that I am at, which is I feel that this is something so important. So many times we can clear, you know, we can clear the closet, we can clear clutter, and we don’t necessarily clear emotional clutter. And when we clear emotional clutter, then reality is shifting. And one of the things that shift its relationship, because some people would not match what you wish in relationship, and some people will be magnetized to the new type of relationship. 


Homaya Amar  11:39

So when I say type of relationship is not that I like I have different meeting times, it’s like there’s different depths, a different vision, a different level of care for each other. And the relationship is still a relationship. But what it made off, it’s really, really different. And some people when they hear, for example, different depths, you think that oh the depth of the relationship or how much you care for the relationship is how much you are engaged in it and how much you give. And it’s not that. It’s more I am who I am, you are who you are. I trust your path. I trust your integrity. And I know that we’re here for each other, even if I’m not all day on the phone with you holding you or something like that. Not that this is what I had before. Just to clear what a misconception can come here.


Shannon Dunn  12:40

Yes. But you’re right that as things do shift, it can make a big difference energetically to how we are able to connect with and who we wish to connect with moving forward, right?


Homaya Amar  12:50

Yeah, yeah, it’s just you magnetize…  you don’t just magnetize new situations to your life, or new opportunities, or new numbers in your bank or new types of audience. It’s no, there’s something in the way that you are presenting your energy day and night into reality, how much you bring, how many diamonds and pearls you’re bringing from within you. And going through the process of refining them and bringing them to the surface of all that creates a whole new magnetism.


Shannon Dunn  13:29

Yeah, completely. And it’s such a fabulous thing to, I think beyond the outside looking in, when someone’s going through that metamorphosis, and shifting and changing to watch how they show up, how they are received, the feedback, you can see people sharing about what they’re learning, what they’re tapping into, the wisdom they’re gleaning. I find that again, as a big observer, such an interesting thing. So the final question I’d love to know your answer to is what do you wish you’d known about a year ago that you know now as a leader in business?


Shannon Dunn  14:02



Shannon Dunn  14:11

That’s a big question, isn’t it?


Homaya Amar  14:13

It’s a big and beautiful question. And again, for the person that I am. I can’t just answer mentally. I really need to invoke within me who I was a year ago. And see her and feel her because there’s so many things that are beyond words. Like I really need to bring her and nothing here is superficial, at least not for me. So what I feel here is like the guidance that I can now give to myself, is that there needs to be really an understanding of the current consciousness cannot be the one who will lead us to the next consciousness more than what it led until now. 



So it’s like if evolution of consciousness, and evolution in life and in presence, we move through dimensions of our presence, of our being. And like the thing, the beautiful thing in dimension is what you experience and  see what one dimension has nothing to do with the dimensions before us. So there is a linear growth day after day after day after day, which is, so we can say predictable on the way and but there’s also true evolution not just change. 


Shannon Dunn  15:50

And they are different. 


Homaya Amar  15:52

They are completely different. And for true evolution, the one that was here before, needs to cease to exist. And compassionately, lovingly, with support, if you need, say goodbye, grief of who you were, and welcome, the new  experience, really welcome the new experience. And I feel that that was one of the biggest thing that I needed to went through. And if I go back, it’s like the encouragement of moving with that joy, moving with anticipation, with curiosity, with attunement to the blissful energy, respecting what was before but knowing that it cannot continue.


Shannon Dunn  16:38

Yeah. And that’s a big difference as well, isn’t it? As you said, respecting what was before but not attaching yourself to it like anchoring yourself in those past versions? The past self, the past timeline? So the Yeah, be where you are now and be in this space to move to the future?


Homaya Amar  16:56

Yeah, yeah. And this is where I was also highlighting, whoever you have been before, cannot take you further than now. Like, this is as far as it could take you. And then your responsibility is to say, Goodbye, thank you, I respect that. I appreciate that. This is so much. Like, I’m so grateful for whatever I’ve done until now. And I’m moving forward. And I feel that if like if I would say, what is the most important thing that led me is this ability to say, every day I would even say goodbye to what was and welcome what is coming goodbye to what was until now that doesn’t exist anymore. We cannot continue with that. Welcome face. And doing it with a certain I would say loyalty, that would be like self loyalty of you knowing what is the big picture for yourself, you know what you’re here for? And people would not understand you, not necessarily they will see the same that you see, not necessarily they will accept it or even you know, cheer you know, not necessarily but as a leader, this is what you do. Yeah, you also lead their understanding of things.


Shannon Dunn  18:16

I really appreciated you just saying then that self loyalty, like you’re being able to really be honoring of who you are, and also where you’re  headed, what you want to leave in this world. And I think you know enough about me to know that legacy is a big part of what is important to me. And I really believe that business and the life work we have is a such a vehicle for imprinting a beautiful legacy of some kind on the world. And we can do that with intention. Sometimes it’s by accident as well. But I think, you know, when you’re in the space of leadership, and that self loyalty really honoring who you are, you’re creating legacy with intention, which is such a thing. Yeah, I love it.


Homaya Amar  18:57

Because honestly, as many people as that can reflect how beautiful you are, how amazing you are, and so on. You’re the only one who really see the big picture. You’re the only one who really see the vision, you might not see details. You might not see really in your eyes like but you feel the vision, the vision is alive is already the coded inside of you. It’s already alive within you. It’s how much you’re going to leave yourself to that vision, to that manifestation of this vision. 


Shannon Dunn  19:02

Yeah, so good. You know, I could talk to you forever. I think milestone for your podcast episode when you joined me for She Leads She Thrives, and when we  had that go live back in January of this year. It was probably the longest episode we’d had to that point as well. We’ve had longer ones just but you know, I I’m not wedded to a particular conversation length for most of our general episodes because I’d much rather capture the richness of the conversation without having to cap it to, we have to stop talking now because we’re going too long. 


Shannon Dunn  20:03

But anyway, we do have to wrap up today for this as part of our birthday series, but what I’d love you to share now is with everybody how they can connect with you online. So if they’re not already following you, if they’re not aware, and they’re kind of curious now after listening to you share today, where’s the best place for them to connect with you? And then we’ll make sure that’s in our show notes.


Homaya Amar  20:25

Oh, thank you so much. So I’d love you to connect of course, and I would be happy to expand and extend those conversations.  My name is quite unique. H O M A Y A. It’s not so complicated that social media, whether it is Facebook, or Instagram would be perfect platform to connect, and to communicate. And yeah, I would love if there’s anything that I can inspire you with. I’m here for that


Shannon Dunn  20:51

Fabulous. And just to affirm for everyone that is listening to us, Homaya does a lot of great online lives and teachings and just sharing your wisdom in all of its different variations on a reasonably regular basis. So following you on the social media platforms gives people a chance to connect into that as well in different ways. So follow, if you’re interested people follow, that’s the best way for us to all grow our learning in our connections as well. So thank you, my friend for joining me again and welcome to being part of our special birthday series. We’ve got to one year. It’s been such a fun thing to to spend this year creating these incredible conversations and interweaving them with solo episodes, and being able to share the voices of women around the world that I have loved and appreciated. So you’ve been a big part of that. So thank you so much.


Homaya Amar  21:42

You’re so welcome. Also me as an observer looking at you, you’re doing such a wonderful, such an inspiring work. With  so much clarity and an effortless strength. I know that it’s not really effortless. But when I say effortless, it’s like it’s almost like it’s so natural. This is what’s supposed to happen. So I honour that so much. 


Shannon Dunn  22:05

Thank you for that reflection because you know when you can have that intention and have that wish, but you don’t always get that beautiful reflection and affirmation from people. So that’s beautiful. Thank you. Okay, everyone wrapping up for today. I look forward to sharing another one of our guests with you very soon for this beautiful birthday series. And please go and follow them all and enjoy the celebrations that we have going on this week as we celebrate our first birthday, at She Leads She Thrives.


Shannon Dunn  22:42

Everyone welcome back, we have another fabulous birthday, what do we call it, Birthday Celebration Series conversation. And this time I have got the gorgeous Laura Dick back with me. Now, Laura’s episode was 17, Number 17. in our… like we’ve gone past 50 now, as we’ve come to first year, we’re kind of heading. That feels like 100 is still a long way away. And I know you and I were just saying your podcast is well over 100 episodes now. That’s such a milestone. But yeah, 17 so it can we live February of 2022. So not quite a year ago, but Laura’s podcasts. I just shared this with her and I love the shocked look on your face when I did. Laura’s  episode was the first one of our episodes to go past 1000 downloads in its first week. So cool. 


Laura Dick  23:28

It’s mind blowing.


Shannon Dunn  23:29

I know. You were just shocked. The topic that we talked about. And I named the episode “Rest your way to business success”. And we’ll find out a little bit more about that, because I’ll get Laura to introduce herself in a moment. But I’m not surprised it was a popular episode and that it still gets consistent downloads across time, even if you and I aren’t regularly reminding people and sharing it. It’s just such a great thing because it clearly it’s a topic that the women of the world want to know more about, right? You know, we know everything about She Leads She Thrive is being positioned to reach out and to share topics and inspiration of wisdom for women that are ambitious and want to make an impact want to leave legacy in the world. But clearly, they want to do it in a more restful, easeful way, which is exactly what you and I talked about. So we’ll make sure that episode 17 gets linked up. Very, very cool. So we might need to talk again in the future about another, like your next iteration of what you’re doing with your work. But right now, I’d love you to just do a quick intro and share a little bit more about you. And then we’ll get into those incredible questions that I can’t wait to ask you. It’s a bit of a Where are they now for all of the guests we’re getting back for the birthday series.


Laura Dick  24:40

Awesome. Well, yes. As Shannon said, my name is Laura. My business is Business with Flow and my whole thing is about empowering women and people with periods to run their business without burning out, without hustling, resting their way to success. And I do that through working in alignment with the menstrual cycle. Systems, planning, tech, all of the things to support you to build your business in a way that means you don’t have to be chained to your desk or your phone, 24/7


Shannon Dunn  25:10

Yeah, you do it so beautifully. And you know, I can’t remember when we first connected but it’s a few years ago now and it’s been from this side and here I am in Australia, you’re in New Zealand, but from kind of this side of the…what do they call it across the pond or something? Across 2 countries,  I’ve loved watching you evolve your business from you know, you’ve always been so you’re very systems focused and launching and things like that, because it’s definitely your space of have expertise. 


Laura Dick  25:38

Absolutely, I’m a complete Virgo. So anything organization systems planning, like it’s just innate? Totally, totally.


Shannon Dunn  25:47

And then when we did some work together, and you got to know your Archetypes, and then seeing how they integrated and then you know, your period coaching. So it’s Stasha Washburn, who was our first ever guest for She Leads She Thrive,  the conversation she and I have as part of this series as well. So I love that the two period coaches that I’ve chatted to both made it into our  special series.  But you know, as I said, it’s been such a cool thing to me to sit back and kind of observe what you’ve done and how you’ve really – what’s the kind of words I’m looking for – blossomed more into who you are, right, kind of really knowing who you are, and, and being really clear about this whole resting. You and I’ve had lots of conversations over the years about hustle and what we both think about that. So with that, let’s launch into the first question that I’m asking all of our guests for this series, in the last year, what would you say has been your greatest personal evolution, so not necessarily business related, but highly likely is influenced business.


Laura Dick  26:55

I think the biggest change, it’s not even necessarily a change. But the biggest thing is not so much anything new or anything that has drastically changed. But really just deepening into knowing who I am, what makes me tick, what works for me, what doesn’t – in business and in life. And all of those kinds of things and really, rather than I guess as someone who grew up eldest daughter, eldest granddaughter syndrome. I felt like I had the weight of the world on my shoulders, and there was a lot of expectations. And it took me a really long time to actually realize that I get to be who I am and who I want to be in the world. And I really feel like this last year has been so much is deepening into it and embodying like who I really am, you know, understanding my Thrive Factor Archetypes, and my human design and all of those things, and actually, not so much discovering new things, but almost having these a-ha moments of going. I’ve always known that, but maybe not consciously known that about myself and then embracing that more in business, life, all of the things.


Shannon Dunn  28:16

Well, it’s been palpable, this is what I lead with that, without really knowing exactly what you’re gonna answer to that question. But there is such a thing, isn’t there that I feel like it’s a real gifted space of knowing, as you said, knowing those parts of ourselves, but not really necessarily hav embodied them, trust them, work with them, allow them to be seen and heard by others. It’s a big shift.


Laura Dick  28:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think for so long, that I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of the patriarchy and all of that we could be here all day. But there’s been so many expectations of what a “good girl” is, and you know, and what women will and won’t be able to do and, and still in 2023, we’re still trying to break down a lot of those barriers. And yeah, it’s just, I guess, giving us the permission and the space to actually explore that and, and become more of it.


Shannon Dunn  29:13

Yeah, it’s very, very cool. They were in such an interesting time in the world, where things are shifting and changing. So correct, for sure. And yeah, rest is more of a priority than it’s ever been in. Absolutely. Not necessarily for older generation. Very interesting. So the second question that I’d love to know the answer to is what’s gone on behind the scenes for this past year, things that we haven’t seen on, say, your social media. 


Laura Dick  29:43

Gosh, so much, but also at the same time, not very much at all. And I feel like that’s probably a bit cryptic but for the last couple of months, especially I recognized that I just needed to take a step back and take a break. I haven’t been very active on social media. Yeah, I’ve taken a break for I think about a month now on producing any more podcast episodes and just realized that I just needed to take a step back, create a bit more space, my body was saying, hey, we need more rest, even though I’m very good at resting, we need more. And really just get back to the core of like, what is it that I want to do? What is that bigger vision for my business? Where am I going? Are the things that I’m currently doing taking me in that direction? Yes or no. And, you know, questioning everything, almost, which has been kind of challenging, but also kind of fun. 


Shannon Dunn  30:43

And I get the challenge thing. But I also get what you said about it being fun, you know, to sit in that space of maybe exploring reflecting, that kind of what do I really want to be doing, what really energizes me? What really supports me to lead my business, my life with a business model that works for me?


Laura Dick  31:05

Yeah, business model, especially is a big one that I’m really kind of working through at the moment, like, how do I want to work with clients? Um, what are the kinds of things that I want to offer? What do I want that to look like? So yeah, we’ll see what comes of it, watch this space. But, you know, I think we all go through it as our businesses grow and evolve. And I’m just kind of in the middle of it at the moment.


Shannon Dunn  31:31

Good. I think that’s an exciting place to be. But I also understand that it can be quite unnerving. And a dis….that’s not even the kind of the right words coming to me. But it can be in a very uncomfortable place for some people. 


Laura Dick  31:47

Absolutely. I mean, the voices in the back of my head that, like, if you’re not active on social media, you’re going to destroy your algorithm. And if you don’t put out podcast episodes, or email your list, then you know, all of those things. That’s definitely been one of the biggest battles of letting go of all of the “shoulds”. And actually, it’s going to be fine. Like, I just have to trust that it will be fine. And whatever comes from this at the end of it is, is exactly as it needs to be. But yeah, can be uncomfortable.


Shannon Dunn  32:19

Yeah, I can hear your Mediator Diplomat Archetype getting bossy with what she should be doing, right? Yeah, but I feel like this year, as we are in 2023, I’ve seen and heard a number of women in my broader community, talk about this kind of thing. And I’ve done it and been in that space as well. And I’ve called it redefining. And I’ve said, a little while ago on some of my content I was sharing, it’s not about changing who I am. It’s about becoming more of me in some regards. And in that sometimes means saying no to some things that we’ve thought were the best things or right things for us. And saying yes to other things that maybe we forgot that we actually nurture and nourish us. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Very exciting. Final question I have as part of this birthday series is, what do you wish you’d known kind of a year ago that you know, now as a business leader, like a woman leading in your space?


Laura Dick  33:21

Gosh, I can’t remember what I was gonna say. This is completely off the cuff. But I think the biggest thing, coming back to what we were just talking about is trusting that this is so naff, but everything happens for a reason. And trusting that however it works out is exactly as it’s supposed to work out and yes, sometimes things are uncomfortable, and they are challenging. That you need to go through the awkwardness and the discomfort to get to what’s on the other side. And just trust that if you’re feeling the call to pull back, slow down, disappear from social media for a couple of months, that it’s actually okay, and it’s not going to break your business completely.


Shannon Dunn  34:06

And I think until you go through that experience, whether by choice, or sometimes, by the situations you find yourself in, it’s hard to see that or know and be in that space of trust isn’t it, that it really will be okay. And there will still be someone out there that is your ideal client and wants to work with you and will pay you and you know, all of that kind of thing. 


Laura Dick  34:29

Yeah, it’s absolutely easier said than done. You know,  just trust it will be okay. But when you’re in the middle of it, that’s a it’s a really hard thing to do.


Shannon Dunn  34:40

So just to bring us to, from your answer to that final question to kind of bring us back into your area of wisdom, with that  leading a cyclic business and really resting your way to business success. How have you leaned into your own expertise to support you during this time?


Laura Dick  35:00

It’s a really good example of taking my own medicine. Yes, it’s working with my physical energy and my mental energy and my capacity. A lot of what I’ve been working through is things that I will often take clients through in terms of going okay, what is the big picture vision? Okay, where am I now? What do I need to get from here to there? What does that look like? How much capacity do I have? And really just reviewing everything? And then looking at what I’ve got now and going well, what’s the difference? What do I need to change in terms. Is it systems? Is it social media platforms? Is it the kind of content I produce? Really just looking at all of that and working out? Well, if this is what I have, and that’s what I want? How do I get from here to there? 


Shannon Dunn  35:53

Such a great reminder, again, piece of wisdom right there, how valuable it is to lead ourselves through our own processes, the way that we work with our clients to actually have that lived experience more than once of doing that with ourselves. Yeah,


Laura Dick  36:09

yeah, absolutely.


Shannon Dunn  36:12

So considering that, I’m sure people are going to be interested to find out more about you and your work and whatever it looks like, by the time we share this in the coming weeks, where’s the best place for people to connect with you, and then we’ll make sure that those links go into the show notes for this episode, too.


Laura Dick  36:29

Awesome. So Instagram is the place that I generally hang out, you can find me at @businesswithflow, even if I’m not posting much, I’m still kind of there just keeping an eye on what my friends are doing and things like that.


Shannon Dunn  36:41

But for sharing little bits of inspiration and things that I know that you find kind of funny or interesting in your stories. So yes, yes. Maybe not much content in your feed, I can always kind of see a little bit about what’s going on for you and your stories. 


Laura Dick  36:58

So yes, come hang out with me on Instagram. Or you can come to my website, which is businesswithflow.com. And you’ll find all of the information in the links there.


Shannon Dunn  37:09

Awesome. Thank you so much. It’s been so good to catch up with you again,


Laura Dick  37:12

Thank you, it’s always great to chat. 


Shannon Dunn  37:14

In some way selfish to kind of go, like, you know, which guests am I gonna get back,  like who’s episodes did what, in that kind of those first few months of us going live as She Leads She Thrives. And to have this beautiful moment of kind of like, where are you all now? What are you doing and to connect back in and share more of your wisdom.


Shannon Dunn  37:30

So thank you for joining me, Laura, again. And listeners, thank you for tuning in. This is one of many conversations we’re having during this, you know, First Birthday Celebration Series. And I hope that you are finding them inspiring and interesting. And that you go and listen to the original episodes from these incredible women and connect with you know what, what we talked about up to a year ago. And also follow them, go and follow them and connect in with their incredible wisdom that they share, so abundantly all of them. Thank you again, Laura. Thank you everyone. And I look forward to sharing the next conversation with you very soon.


Shannon Dunn  38:03

Great big hello, everybody. Here we are with another one of these awesome conversations for our very first birthday episodes. So it’s like our First Birthday Celebration Series. And I’m delighted to welcome Jesika. So Jesika Liston was our guest way back in episode 12. That feels like such a long time ago. And the topic of the episode or what I ended up calling it was “Swagger your way to success”, which felt like just such the perfect thing with everything we talked about in your episode way back then. And I wasn’t surprised that it was an episode that got a lot of downloads fast. And I know that you were so generous in sharing it with your community as well. So thank you for that, my friend. It’s great to have you back, and to welcome you to be part of this our first birthday series. 


Shannon Dunn  38:03

So before we get in with some questions that I’ve been asking every one of our guests for this series, I’d love you to introduce yourself and just tell everyone who’s listening who you are.


Jesika Liston  39:14

Yes, so if you didn’t hear the original episode or new to tuning in. So I’m Jesika Liston. I’m from the United States. And I am known as the Swagger Specialist. So essentially what I do is I help you heal and harmonize and elevate your inner and outer relationships with every single piece of your existence, essentially, so that you can reach your ultimate. Whether thats swagger or your ultimate money story, or your ultimate marriage, your ultimate body, whatever that definition is for you. So, I love that we’re talking about swagger your way to success because success is so different for everybody.


Shannon Dunn  39:59

Yeah, totally. And I think that’s one of the things I’ve loved about the time that we’ve known each other, which is a good two and a half or so years, maybe longer now. Stay connected online. And we’ve been in masterminds together and then programs together with different coaches and different things and connected with each other in some fabulous ways. And I have just enjoyed and I know I shared this in  that episode we did way back at number 12. Your evolution of coming into your own swagger. Right? It’s been very cool to watch. Let’s get into some some questions. So the first one I’d love your answer to is in the last year, what’s been your greatest personal evolutions, not necessarily business. But, you know, I think most people listening who are in their own businesses will know that personal and business end up intertwining, but, you know, your greatest personal evolution in that time?


Jesika Liston  40:56

Yeah, so I would say that over the last year, I’ve really been working on my spiritual swagger. So that’s been my biggest evolution. You’ve probably heard the phrase, “new level new devil” where you think you have something figured out, and then you grow and you evolve. And then you realize, I guess I really didn’t have that figured out. Because now that I’m at this level, it seems to be coming up again. And I realized that I was evolving so quickly, that I was frustrated, that I kept struggling with the same things that I thought I had already healed, like, my relationship with my body, or with my motivation, I felt like I needed to be motivated, or else like, what is there? Or like, my relationship with holding money, or even with my titles? 


Jesika Liston  41:58

You know, that was something that was really interesting is what do people call me? How do they identify me and so this spiritual awakening that I’ve had, has been all about letting go of expectations and pressure. That’s what I would say are the two things that I’ve really worked the hardest on, is letting go of my own expectations, the pressure that I put on myself, or the meaning of things. If I make this much money must mean this or if I don’t make this much money, it must mean that or, if I live in this town, it must mean this thing, just letting go of a lot of the rules. I started calling myself like a Rule Renegade, because I was like, I can’t, with all these rules, either that society’s put on us, or I’ve put on myself, and I’m sure people can relate to that. And I’m just letting myself exist. And as somebody who’s basically hustled, and worked and strategized and been doing something my whole life, it was such a learning curve, to let myself just exist and explore this being that I am and who lives spiritually, not just logically or rationally, right. So that I would say has been my biggest thing this last year.


Shannon Dunn  43:34

It’s such an interesting thing, when you find yourself in a place that’s so different to what’s been, I guess, your own personal norm for a long time, isn’t it? So much learning, but also, as you said, frustration, and other kinds of things where you’re just like, is this a good thing? This is a bad thing again, because we make meaning of stuff, right? We’re labelling things, we’re always making meaning of something. We’re always trying to make sense of something. We’re always trying to work out what’s wrong, what’s missing? What’s not okay, rather than just is what it is.


Jesika Liston  44:01

Yeah. Which I love that because it’s what makes us really good business owners. Yeah. But at the end of the day, it’s hard to turn that off and say, Okay, wait, but what do I want? How do I want? How do I choose to feel about this? Does that feel good? And if it doesn’t feel good? Well, then what do I want? Yeah. Oh, okay. I’m gonna let myself have that thing.


Shannon Dunn  44:23

Yeah, it is such an interesting thing. And I think, you know, the majority of of people that are tuning in it, in my mind, because of this is how I’ve created the energy for what the conversations are about and who therefore, they’re ambitious individuals like you and I. And when you’re an ambitious person, you kind of always doing the next thing and where are we going next? And what are we doing here? And what are we doing there? And, you know, yes, potentially celebrating along the way, but really always moving forward, with some great momentum. And yes, that is also a challenging thing when that’s been a whole life experience because it’s part of your personality to then, wait a second maybe we don’t need to go so far. So we don’t need to go a certain pace. So we don’t need to achieve a certain something that we thought was our definition of success previously, right? Big change.


Jesika Liston  45:08

I think this is like the first time in my life, my soul, my spirit just said, I’m tired. Yeah, I’m tired of always striving, of strategizing, of achieving, like, I’m tired. And that manifested itself in, I got tired of my business. And I got tired of always being the one to have the answers, and I wasn’t excited anymore. And I am very disciplined in every area of my life. That’s how I was raised. That’s how I’m trained. It’s my safe zone is to be disciplined. And I actually asked myself, because, again, you’ve probably heard the phrase, when you’re not motivated, you need to be disciplined. Like, I see that phrase a lot. But I thought, Okay, well, what if I’m already disciplined? And I’m not motivated? What comes after that? Like, what’s next? 


Shannon Dunn  46:09

What’s next? What are the other options? 


Jesika Liston  46:12

And that was this question that keep coming up, like, Okay, I’ve been disciplined, and I’m still not where I want to be. So something’s got to give. Ultimately. And that was probably the most profound question my soul or  intuition ever asked myself was, what comes after discipline, and I found the answer. And essentially, what comes after discipline is surrender. You have to surrender to the results, right? You have to surrender to what is meant to be, you have to surrender to, to whatever is coming for you, without having to try to control it, or think it into existence, or force it to be or hurry up and get there. And so what I found is the last several months have been so full of peace and joy. And yet, I haven’t accomplished anything. And I shouldn’t say it like that. But my old version of me would be like you haven’t accomplished anything. Yeah. But really like the spiritual growth and the spiritual surrender, and the spiritual peace, I think is more than I could ever accomplish  in the physical world. 


Shannon Dunn  47:35

I love it. So this leads me to our next question I think perfectly. And I’m intrigued to hear the answer now, we’ve just talked about about that one. So the next question I have for you, Jes, is what has gone on behind the scenes for you this past year that we haven’t seen on your socials? Because you like a lot of the guests that I have on the podcast, share a lot of what’s going on for you, like what you’re thinking, what you’re feeling, your experiences to, thinking more recently, like beautiful things and insights into your family and the new puppy you have. And like all of these things. We see all of that. So what’s going on behind the scenes that you haven’t shared? That you’re happy to share now?


Jesika Liston  48:12

Sure. Well, I would say, Yeah, you’re right, I do share a lot.  I love to share all of me on social media. And yet, I would say the thing that I haven’t shared is the questions that come up in my own mind, similar to what I just shared. But it’s also more of like  that deeper, darker battle that I know that every single woman or entrepreneur or person with a vision or dream or ambition of any kind, you question yourself and you doubt yourself sometimes and you ask yourself, these things like, Am I really cut out for this? Is this, like, is this what is meant for me? What am I supposed to do next? I don’t really like that thing. But I don’t really like this thing either. So I don’t know, what do I like? What do we want to do? 


Jesika Liston  49:10

So I would say what’s going on behind the scenes is a lot of questioning. And I think that that’s a good thing. I used to see it as a bad thing. Because if you were questioning yourself, that means you didn’t have confidence in yourself and if you didn’t have confidence, you didn’t know who you were, which was so confusing, because I’m the swagger specialist.  I’m not supposed to question myself, or second guess my decision or you know those things. So I really battled internally with that. And I would say that for anybody that’s doubting themselves or questioning themselves, or maybe they are in their own evolution to where they’re like, I built this thing and I don’t even like that thing anymore. 


Shannon Dunn  49:58

That is such a common experience for so many people in business at some point in their business. I’ve done it more than once.


Jesika Liston  50:05

Right? And I didn’t know that it was as common as it was. And so I felt kind of ashamed of it. And my thought is this, if you’re questioning yourself, it’s a good thing. And I would highly recommend that you seek out an totally non-biased, third party person, somebody that loves you, a guide, a mentor, a coach, a friend who can be objective. And just  talk to them, just tell them what’s going on in the mind, because I was caught between this rational and spiritual battle. And it’s like,  which voice do I listen to. And I learned to not listen to either of them. But to tune into my own gifts, and I have very, very unique spiritual, like visionary type gifts. Where I can sort of take this 10,000 foot view of my life or my clients life and start connecting the dots. 


Jesika Liston  51:11

Anyways, what I learned is not to stay on that same frequency. That’s the point. That’s the punch line is, the rational side of you isn’t correct, the spiritual side of you isn’t correct. We can’t stay on the same frequency. If you’re doubting yourself, elevate up, elevate up, like tune into a totally different vibration, totally different frequency, talk to your guides, talk to your angels, talk to your ancestors, whatever it is that you believe in. Yeah, and have them help you understand what’s coming, what’s next. What would you have me do? What’s the lesson I need to learn here? And if you need to talk it out with a guide, a mentor, somebody like that, I would recommend it because it’s that level of vulnerability that you can really start to have the answers that you’re searching so desperately for.


Shannon Dunn  52:06

It’s such a different thing. And I’ve always been a big fan of asking questions. And I’d haven’t necessarily from my own personal experience, thought that that meant that I wasn’t confident, or I didn’t know what I was doing. And I just think that’s part of my personality is to be very curious. So I’ve always been the question asker, the why.  I want to understand, what’s going on here.  I think that for me, it’s been about not making meaning of the asking questions. And that’s the difference there. So rather than, you know, being in that space of asking a lot of questions, and then go, Oh, this must mean, no, it doesn’t mean anything. It just means that the moment I’m asking a lot of questions, and I’m exploring things in a different way. 


Jesika Liston  52:44

I’m curious and I love that about myself. Yes, I’m glad you mentioned that. I just want to say this really quick. You know, my personality is a 3, 5, so I’m a changer, fixer. And with my spiritual awakening, one of the most profound things that I told myself is like, I don’t need fixed, I don’t need changed, I can stay at this current level, and be so full, overflowing, in fact, and be so proud of myself that I don’t always need something to fix or something to change. Because if I wasn’t working on my weight loss journey then I was working on my financial story. If I wasn’t working on that, but I was working on fixing or changing this. And so I just decided to not fix or change anything. And it’s been, it’s just been the most magical experience. So I would also tell our listeners, don’t be hard on yourself,


Shannon Dunn  53:39

I’m feeling a sense of liberation, just listening to you. Perfect segue to the next question. And the last one I have here, I’ve been asking all of our guests for this series is, what do you wish you’d known a year ago that you know, now as a business leader?


Jesika Liston  54:00

I feel like there’s so many things that it’s hard to pick just one. But I would say in the words of Amanda Francis, that be the gentle observer of your life. And essentially what that means is if you’re questioning, it doesn’t have to mean anything good or bad. And I’ve also paid attention to my language. So that’s something I wish I would have done much earlier in my business. Meaning I used to use words like expensive or cheap or good or bad or right or wrong. And so I was shifting this polarity all the time. 


Jesika Liston  54:47

And what if it just is, it just is and how do I feel about that? If I feel good about it, then great. And there’s that word again, but my point is, that when we’re the gentle observer of our life, we get to decide where we put our energy, where we put our focus, where we put the meaning. And I didn’t realize that in my younger, more green self is, I thought, everything has to have a meaning. And this is the right way to do it, or this is the wrong way to do it. This must mean this is good, or, Oh, that must mean I did that wrong. So I was always judging myself and think, as an entrepreneur, you just have to stop judging yourself so much.


Shannon Dunn  55:45

The reality is, it’s very easy to understand how we get to that place of a lot of judgment, of comparison, of all those things, because two seconds on social media these days are in any online space and you’ve got someone telling you how to do something and what something means. And you either buy into that or you don’t. And sometimes when you don’t, you feel potentially alienated or like, oh, there must be something wrong with me or something…. again, we’re making many of things right, because I don’t think like that, I don’t feel like that. That’s not my definition of success. That thing that someone said is a fail proof way to achieve XYZ is not for me and so when you go against, which I know you and I both have a rebel streak, and you go against what’s the norm, or the way to do it, the way to achieve a certain something you can immediately feel in a space of I don’t know, kind of where I’m where I fit here. So it’s Yeah, sad, isn’t it how we get to that place of judgment? Or again, the making excessive meaning of something?


Jesika Liston  56:43

Yes. And going back to the topic of like, how do you swagger your way to success? Well, I would say stop judging yourself so much. And I heard a story recently, there’s this mentor that I really admire and she was telling a story about how in her third year of business, she made $11,000. And the second she said that I was like, Girl, what? Your third year of business, you only made $11,000. Who am I to sit here and complain if I had an $11,000 month, in my second year of business, it just put that into perspective. And I share that because sometimes we feel like we’re not enough, we’re not keeping up. Or we will see these examples of coaches or whoever in your industry, right? Who are having wild success?


Jesika Liston  57:53

 And so one, that’s my rule. Stop, just stop judging yourself. And trust me, I know that that’s hard. I know that that’s, that’s tricky when you have goals, and you’re trying to get places. But also what’s interesting to me about this space that I’m in currently, is that it’s not just knowing. Because that’s what I use to define this as swagger is like you have this knowingness. Even if you don’t know. Even if you don’t know what’s next, even if you don’t know how, even if you don’t know, when it, that’s okay. It’s okay to not know and still love where you’re at and love where you’re going and just love that part of the journey. Because when you can surrender to whatever the God or the universe or angels, the cosmic forces has for you. It gets to be a lot more fun. 


Shannon Dunn  59:03

Fun, I think freeing, peaceful…


Jesika Liston  59:07

Liberating,  all the adjectives for that. 


Shannon Dunn  59:10

I love it. Love it, love it. So much wisdom as I expected. You can’t help it sometimes have expectations. And I think when you know someone and you know that they are going to..like for you Jes like all of the incredible guests that I’ve had back for this series. You’re also genuinely excited about coming back to chat to me. So I did have an expectation that our conversation….


Jesika Liston  59:30

We’ll talk to you any day of the week. You’re one of my favorite people.


Shannon Dunn  59:35

Likewise, honey, but right now anyone who has been listening who hasn’t connected with you, where can they do that?


Jesika Liston  59:42

Facebook or Instagram are my best places. So Jesika Liston, spelt J E S I K A  and I know you’ll share that on the notes. So @jesika.liston on Instagram. You can check me out on my website, thejesikaliston.com,  friend me on Facebook and let me know that you listened to the podcast. And that’s why we’re friending because that’ll help give me more of a baseline. Because, you know, these days, I seem to be getting so many friend requests that I want to make sure that I’m truly connecting with the people that really want to connect.


Shannon Dunn  1:00:17

I 100% hear you on that one. And I think it’s such a nice thing also, when someone has heard you on a podcast or following something that you’ve shared online, and they reach out, and they tell you where that like, why they’re reaching out, but what that connection was all about. Such a beautiful thing. So thank you very much, my friend for joining me for part of being part of this series. It’s been really great to connect with you again. And to have you back I think, I don’t even know where we’re at in terms of what episode number this will be. But, you know, back at the beginning of September, we had episode 50. So we’re well and truly heading to kind of episode 60 now and there you were back at Episode 12, in the early days of She Leads SheThrives. 


Jesika Liston  1:00:57

I’m so excited for,  maybe we’ll just say this is episode 60. I’m so excited for episode like 600. All right, and to look at the evolution and be like, look at us way back then.


Shannon Dunn  1:01:09

And I have loved this getting some of you back so much that I think this could be a beautiful thing to do every birthday is to revisit in different ways with different people and say where are they now kind of thing and to kind of to even go back to the early days when we are in year 6, 7, 10, whatever that looks like down the track. Yes,


Jesika Liston  1:01:29

That will be really cool. 


Shannon Dunn  1:01:31

That could be part of the vision. So thank you so much for catching up with me. Again, listeners, thank you for tuning in and listening to our conversation. If you have been intrigued and you’re not following Jesika, please do that. And as she mentioned, we will always put everyone’s contact details in the show notes. So it’s very easy for you to connect with our guests. I don’t want you to have to worry about getting the spelling of their names right and that kind of thing. Just click on the links in the show notes and you’ll find them. So thank you everyone and look forward to sharing our next conversation as part of the series very soon.


Thank you

Thanks for tuning into today’s episode. You are so valued and appreciated.


Aside from this podcast, my favorite place to hang out online is definitely Instagram. So come and join me shannon_thethrivefactor and know my DMs are always open for genuine questions and connections.


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Meet host Shannon Dunn

Shannon Dunn, CEO here at Thrive Factor Co is your host of She Leads She Thrives podcast.
Having hosted two podcasts previously, Shannon loves an opportunity to share her musings, wisdom and lived and learned experiences about a whole range of topics to support the ambitious, ingenious souls of the world to thrive in business, leadership and life.
An OG of the coaching world, Shannon believes thriving is a birthright and with the creation of the Thrive Factor Framework® and it’s 12 distinctive and female centric Archetypes, she’s on a mission to ripple as much thriving as possible across the world.

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