In this episode
Elisha and I talk about
We also talk about Elisha’s experience integrating her Thrive Factor Archetypes into her business, and the value of knowing who you are as you build connections with yourself and others. Elisha is wise, inspiring, insightful, and brings her fabulous Queen energy to every part of our conversation.
In this episode, you’ll hear about
- 05:01 Elisha learning about her Thrive Factor Archetypes
- 08:56 Permission and the growing edge
- 11:34 The interplay between the Queen Ruler and Liberator Engineer Thrive Factor Archetypes
- 44:17 What it really means to be embodied
- 54:36 What role does leadership play in your life and business?
- 57:36 How do you know when you’re thriving?
- 59:11 What’s a final piece of wisdom that you’d like to share?
Connect with guest Elisha Tichelle
Connect with Elisha
She Lead She Thrives, the home of inspired conversations, practical and creative wisdom, expansive leadership and business insights, abundant Bragaudacious moments of celebration and useful info you can actually do something with.
You’ll hear about mindset marketing, money, magnetism, self awareness and the Thrive Factor Framework, it’s Archetypes and more. Amplify your role as a leader, a self led soul. Tap into your effortless success zone. Turn your ingeniousness and wisdom into profitable income streams.
From solo shows to guests you’ll definitely want more from, there’s something for every ambitious ingenious soul.
I’m Shannon Dunn, a true OG of the business coaching space, with an obsession with thriving. You are so welcome here. Let’s dive into today’s episode.
Visit ThriveFactorCo.com/links for all the latest news and offers.
Shannon Dunn 01:16
Great big hello, everybody. Thank you for tuning in to a new episode. I am your host, Shannon Dunn, a long term business and self leadership coach. And if you’ve been following She Leads She Thrives for any period of time you have heard me many times over. But today I’ve got a fabulous guest with me. And if you again have been listening to the episodes for a while now you may have paid attention to the fact that when I have a guest to introduce you to, I’d love to tell you why they’re here.
Shannon Dunn 01:43
Elisha and I were just chatting about that. And the difference. You know, for me, it’s been such an important thing to really reach out and connect with people that I know. And this beautiful woman I actually do know, it’s a little story of our background is we were together on a retreat in Tuscany in September 2018. So if you’ve again, listened to previous episodes, you may have heard my episode with Amy Towle. Amy was also at that retreat. So it was the time that I got to meet both of you Elisha like, and so many other beautiful souls, right.
Shannon Dunn 02:11
But you were this kind of enigma, I think everybody else that had come pretty much come from Australia, right? And there was this American woman that was there. Not that we have any problem in this country with anyone from the US. But it was like who is she, who is she? And it was you. And you were one of the amazing women who said, Yeah, I want to be profiled and you want it to meet your Archetypes. So we got to do that there. Right. In Tuscany. And we were just looking at a couple of those that I took, which I will share on the podcast when it goes live. And I’ll put some of my stories today to say that we were chatting, catching up again. How fun is that? And from recording now that’s coming up to five years ago. Right?
Elisha Tichelle 02:55
It’s amazing. It feels like how could that have been five years ago? And also it was a lifetime ago.
Shannon Dunn 03:01
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s kind of shifted and changed a lot in between. Yeah, but it has. Take us back to that beautiful villa in that with that stunning weather in Tuscany, right. It was such an incredible experience. So yeah, so we as we go through, we will talk about Elisha’s Archetypes because she’s definitely put her hand up to say I want to talk about which I was so excited about. But for now let me do your official intro with your bio. And then we’ll get into our conversation for today.
Shannon Dunn 03:35
So Elisha Tichelle is an alchemist and she -Oh my goodness, so is aren’t you – of the nervous system for visionary leaders and heart centered entrepreneurs following a 20 year career as a somatic researcher and Professor, she now supports her clients to expand their nervous systems, so their work can make a great impact in the world without burning out. Her facilitation guides and expression and extension of nervous system regulation, moving people out of operating from positions of stress and overwhelm into a body states of flow connection and mastery – so needed. You are also the behind the scenes priestess to some of the world’s most successful and well known coaches. I love how that’s for you. It’s like it’s out there, but it’s kind of stealth. I know some of them but I love that. And of course she’s doing that behind the scenes. And through your training program evolution you guide space holders, facilitators and coaches into integrating nervous system work in their business and life. I am so happy to talk to you about this.
Shannon Dunn 04:30
So so much. When I was thinking like questions and where to start – so many places we could start. I think let’s start with your Thrive Factor Archetypes. And then I really want to talk to you so much about the nervous system stuff because I feel that’s been such a trend particularly in the coaching space and business coaching space. But I still feel like a lot of things around the nervous system misses the mark. So we’ll get to talking about that. Really, your take on it with all of your extensive background and expertise is what I’m really excited about.
Shannon Dunn 05:01
So tell us about learning your Thrive Factor Archetypes and how they changed you personally. So not so much your business just right now, but you personally, you’ve got five, so you’re happy to let you share what they are. And tell us that story about having that moment because I remember vividly sitting there with you, talking to you, introducing you to each of the Archetypes and just your whole facial and body and emotional reaction was just so embracing of “this is me”, right? So you tell the story.
Elisha Tichelle 05:38
I think I’m gonna focus on my first Archetype because I feel like that was the one and that she sits in the number one slot has been like, that’s the thing for me that changed the most for me personally, was having the Queen Ruler in that number one spot. And it’s something I feel like I’m still growing into the fullness of like, what does that mean, because it’s so much easier for me to fall towards the Alchemist, go towards that Liberator Engineer, go towards the ones that do a lot of work. And coming into acceptance of this Queen Ruler type. And the ability to sort of let her take the lead in my life, I feel is one of the things that has been like, oh, this lifetime of change in the last five years, was all of a sudden, these places were like, I wouldn’t admit that I was high maintenance, or I tried to hide these things, or I wouldn’t speak up about what I really wanted. And all of a sudden, really letting this Archetype have the lead in my life meant that I could no longer pretend this wasn’t true, I could no longer sweep it under the rug, the fanciness that I wanted in my every day, this magic that I was seeking, like it was true, it was real. And it wasn’t just me being silly. It was actually the code of who I am.
Shannon Dunn 07:02
In your DNA, and your personal blueprint. And that is the Archetypes and I love that you’re talking about this where you got to that point of I can’t deny this anymore. Like, and this is something that so often comes through when I’m working with someone with their Archetypes is the sense of permission to be who they either knew they were but wouldn’t admit it or wouldn’t say that maybe admitted it to themselves, but would never have said it out loud. Or there was that that permission around, I can be who I’ve always wanted to be. Yeah.
Elisha Tichelle 07:38
And I feel like it was like a way that I could be myself how I am expressively. I feel like I knew that about myself, it was something like I kept quiet, right? Or like, was just in certain places where I knew it wouldn’t ruffle feathers or make waves and like actually being like, okay, no, I’m a Queen Ruler.
Shannon Dunn 08:01
You are. It’s so interesting that you’re talking about this in relation to the Queen Ruler, because I mean, there are experiences that I’ve had with women where there’s resistance to one or more of their Archetypes for a number of reasons. The Queen Ruler – that’s a consistent thing that comes up with women that have the Queen Ruler Archetype is that I kind of got to admit this. And this has been part of who I am all my life, I’ve wanted to have a quality experience. I’ve wanted to have beautiful things around me. I mean, it’s the Archetype that is the designer, and is here to bring beautiful things and experiences to the world. Now, that doesn’t have to mean it’s expensive. But the Queen Ruler does tend to have a high end kind of interest. She’s not materialistic, and you would know that. But she wants the best of anything that she invests in whether that’s a material thing or an experience.
Elisha Tichelle 08:56
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I just feel like the permission and the growing edge has just been immense. And I’ve always loved Archetypes. And I think really finding this system that wasn’t about putting it into a box or pigeonholing but it was about actually getting to the root so that you could blossom further. Felt so empowering. And it really, you know, in my business, especially just given me the permission to be like, okay, if I’m Queen Ruler, I get to sort of set these rules for myself. And I feel like one of the reasons my business has been successful in that business sort of perspective is because I don’t run it like a business. Yes, I run like this aspect of my life. And it’s like, no, I’m here to make the rules. I’m here to set this up for myself. I’m here to follow this myself. And I feel like if I hadn’t had this profiling at the beginning of when I was really kind of stepping from side passion project into the center of my life, I could have fallen more prey to sort of doing it the way everyone else said you had to do it, which I absolutely have not.
Shannon Dunn 10:05
And I think there’s a few things coming to mind, I always get a rush of different ideas. And I do remember that when it is you said it because it was a sign passion project, interest, I want to do this, I want to have a business doing, bringing all of your experiences, your expertise, your lived and learned experiences, your interest to life. And I remember talking to you about that. And I think it’s so easy though, in the online, particularly business landscape, to get caught up and follow other people’s ideas about how things need or should be done. And that’s kind of words that we often fall prey to, isn’t it, rather than being able to go but this is who I am.
Shannon Dunn 10:50
I think we do need to mention your Liberator Engineer Archetype, one that we share, because the Liberator Engineer is the rebel Archetype. And she is so so wired to follow her own path, even if she doesn’t know what that is yet. So I think she is a beautiful complement to your Queen Ruler, which is the Archetype of said before beauty and design and leadership and opulence in those rich experiences. The Liberator Engineer was sitting there in the background, guiding and supporting you in your Queen Ruler energy to create the freedom that you desire, which is truly defining your business on your own terms with that rebellious “I’m doing it my way”.
Elisha Tichelle 11:34
Totally, and I think getting them to work together has been a big key, because before really getting the Queen Ruler in the center, my Liberator Engineer had too much power to create and destroy…
Shannon Dunn 11:46
yes, which she does beautifully, doesn’t she.
Elisha Tichelle 11:49
And I really love that I will destroy things and let them go. And then I don’t get stuck on it. And I’m like, let’s do this better. And let’s keep engineering these things. I love that. But there was something about I wasn’t in the permission to let it – and maybe you would, you can speak to this more -but like, by Liberator Engineer wasn’t necessarily about building a legacy. She likes what can we do right now. And she would just create and destroy and create and destroy. And I feel like the Queen Ruler really coming in and saying, like, that’s fantastic. You’ve been practicing that you’re really great at it. But now we’re going to build towards this.
Elisha Tichelle 12:28
And all of a sudden, my Liberator Engineer has something to focus on, and to get really excited about and so now we have different conversations about what gets created and what gets destroyed. And what gets worked on and how we’re going to do that and what do we just let slide because it’s good enough. And all of these kinds of conversations that have created more consistency in certain areas that I needed it to have a foundation, but have also allowed me to deepen my work. And I feel like that book, I don’t know if you’ve read it “Deep Work”. It’s really interesting, because it talks about this ways that we don’t get to our real work, like the deep work because of all the other stuff that we can be doing, like answering the emails, or…and I feel like my Liberator Engineer she’s really good at all that stuff, right. And she feels so productive, all of these things, but it wasn’t getting to the depth of the work. And I feel like getting these two Archetypes in alignment and working together, has allowed the Liberator Engineer to really engineer a depth of work that I was craving.
Shannon Dunn 13:36
That’s fabulous. And I can see similarities. My Visionary Creator archetype and the Queen Ruler, have some similarities in their, I guess in their expression, that visionary legacy-creating kind of energy. But you’re right, the Liberator engineer can either be destructive towards that, or she can be so useful. You know, it’s that rebellious aspect of the engineering is that just pushing kind of things a little bit further to see what happens and tinkering over and over and over. And, you know, from a practical business perspective, maybe building a registration page for a program you’re doing and the Liberator Engineer just keeps coming and going let me just change this…stop! Itt was great. Let my Visionary Archetypes define the vision, create that space. And I think where we can really bring the Liberator Engineer in initially with that is to make sure that freedom is woven into that vision that we create or we’re working towards. And then the Engineer is the doing part of okay, now like you said we’ve got to focus. We can work towards building, engineering, creating what it is we actually say we want rather than the distractions of everything else around us, right. Yeah. So much.
Shannon Dunn 14:56
So how then has the Archetypes because you’ve said, you’ve got five Yes, the Queen Ruler, being the leader, I mean truly is the Archetype of leadership, we’ve talked about your Liberator Engineer, how many others show up and support them? Because this is something I think is sometimes missed when women get to know themselves, whether it’s through the lens of their Thrive Factor Archetypes, or another kind of system, is that we end up often focusing on just one or a couple of parts of ourselves and can almost forget that we have a broader kind of experience or expression of who we are, and every part of us from an Archetypal perspective is going to show up and be influential. Whether we acknowledge that or not. So how do the others show up?
Elisha Tichelle 15:41
You know, I have to admit that I’m probably one of those people who just focuses on, so I focus on the Alchemist and the Liberator and the Queen Ruler…
Shannon Dunn 15:51
The Shapeshifter Alchemist.
Shannon Dunn 15:53
Yeah, That’s too funny. And so just so everyone listening in, but Elisha also has the Mentor Teacher and the Insrpier Believer. When meeting you and getting to understand your depth of background in the academic space, it was not surprise me that you had the Mentor Teacher Archetype. I think she’s so ingrained in innately in you that you kind of don’t really need to focus on her so much.
Elisha Tichelle 16:18
It just kind of shows up all the time. Like somebody said, I was having this random conversation with somebody like, you just can’t help but teach.
Shannon Dunn 16:25
That’s the Mentor Teacher, right. I mean, you went down an academic path. Other Mentor Teachers in the world listening in, I feel it’s a really easy Archetype to go, “Yeah, I’ve got that or I haven’t”. Some of the others a little bit more elusive, but the Mentor Teacher, you tend to know you either have it or you don’t. But you don’t have to have had a formal teaching qualification, like you have to end up teaching. It’s just part of who you are.
Elisha Tichelle 16:53
And I think the reason I ended up with a formal teaching qualification was because from a very early age, like three years old, I was teaching and organizing bodies in space, and telling people what to do. So I think I heard throughout my life, you’re a teacher, you’re a leader. So it just made sense to me, of course, that when it was time for a career, it’s like, well, you just teach people to do these things. But I think with the Inspirer too that it’s something that just comes innately like, I want people to be inspired when I write my newsletter, when I put things out. That I feel, yeah, that I want that breath of inspiration that comes in. That idea. I also do, you know, as a breathwork facilitator, that idea of inspiration is just huge, that aspect of like, what are we taking in? And what’s the quality then that I’m putting out that other people would be taking in and is that a quality that serves. So I do think they’re less in the forefront of working with things, but they absolutely are part of my life daily.
Shannon Dunn 17:56
Listening to you and even remembering back to that nearly five years ago, that the Mentor Teacher and the Inspirer Believer were already so innately ingrained in who you are and how you’re expressing that you didn’t need to more consciously and intentionally build relationships with them like you did the Liberator Engineer and Queen Ruler. I think the Shapehifter Alchemist was also there in a big way.
Elisha Tichelle 18:17
That I would say the one that one I was most in touch with in her shadow. Yes. Okay. That was the one when we were at the table and you did that first presentation. And there was something that I was like, oh, yeah, a little bit. When you said the Shapeshifter Alchemist. I was like, and I think you said something about bills, like all the women in business that and I was like, “That is me”, like I knew instantly, like all of the shadows that were there of like, you can’t quite see what I’m doing. Such a shapeshifter. And, yeah, I think that’s been really important and something that I continue to actually really need to hone in on because that shape shifting can be such a gift and also it can be such a way of obscuring yourself. And blending it and and, for me, I think the more that I own my own worthiness and my right to have space to speak and to stand forward, the shapeshifting becomes more powerful and less of an obscuring of myself.
Shannon Dunn 19:27
I love that. I think the thing to really focus in on when someone’s like you and they have the Queen Ruler, and Shapeshifter Alchemist is that combination together Elisha is the magical Queen.
Elisha Tichelle 19:40
I love it.
Shannon Dunn 19:43
The Queen is grounded. She knows who she is. She may have had times when she took a while to get to a comfort level to share herself in the world, but she knows who she is. There’s no denying that. It’s such a grounded strong Archetype. The Mentor Teacher again, knows who she is. The Liberator Engineer does as well, but the rebellious part can kind of interfere with the expression of things. But the Shapeshifter Alchemist can very much be the most elusive mystical enigma of a woman. And yet when a woman that has a Shapeshifter Alchemist Archetype, steps into her magic, like whatever your definition of magic is, oh, my goodness, like there’s no stopping you. And the impact that you can have is incredible. Inspirer Believer just comes along as a cheerleader.
Shannon Dunn 20:33
But moving to the next kind of question I wanted to ask you, I think it’s important to highlight that Inspirer Believer inspiration is just part of who that Archetype is. That’s another one that you and I share. We’ve got three of the same But the thing that’s often missed with the Inspirer Believer is she’s the Archetype of energy. And you look at your focus, like nervous system, somatics – it’s all energetic work, right? Your breath work, so much of what you do. So again, that was no surprise to me, having Archetype with a combination of others that you have, that it’s being such a natural, again, innate focus for you.
Shannon Dunn 21:10
So on that you have been learning about and working with the nervous system, teaching it for decades. It’s not just because you’ve jumped on a trend, because as we said earlier, it’s been a trend in the last few years, I see it, particularly in the business coaching space, but also in other coaching, mentoring and teaching spaces. So why do you think though, that this has suddenly risen as like a popular trend, because it’s not new. You’ve been teaching it and literally embodying it, and demonstrating it for such a long time. But why do you think it’s come up as such a popular thing in this kind of coaching mentoring space the last few years?
Elisha Tichelle 21:51
Well, that’s a great question. And I would say one of the things that I think is that the coaching world is a bit of the canary for the collective. In terms of as things need to be sort of cried out and brought forward the coaching…. I think one of the ways if we could look at sort of, what in the collectives does this coaching industry kind of stand for and what and what’s its service as a collective organism, I think crying out about what we need to focus on is one of the ways that coaching industry is meant to serve, right and sort of hammering and highlighting these things.
Elisha Tichelle 22:33
I’m teaching this work eight hours a day, I live it, I breathe it, and, you know, all of these things, and also, I’m falling apart. And also, I feel really a lack of confidence in myself. And also, um, you know,…. and so these places where I just began to recognize it’s not, something’s not translating here. Yeah. And that was really what took me on a journey. And I think as a collective, we’ve had enough disruptive, chaotic blips in the world, over the past five, seven years, right, that having to go, uh, you know what, I think that meditation I was doing is not… I feel great after I meditate, and then I feel like shit 15 minutes later. I feel wonderful after I do my yoga, but then I’m still laying in bed and I can’t sleep. So I think we’re beginning as a collective to recognize we’ve put a lot of, we’ve bought into some beliefs, hook, line and sinker, because we’re still very immature as a species. Still want Mommy and Daddy to be like, Oh, you’re doing a good job. You did a meditation. Yay. You’re not going to experiencing hard stuff. You’re not gonna have to go through something hard.
Elisha Tichelle 22:33
Of course, the shadow is, is that then we all take a 12 week course, and everyone’s trauma informed and then you go into mastery, and all of the things that happen as well, inside of the industry. But I think the beautiful part is this recognition, as I went through my own journey, you know, I bought hook, line and sinker in my late teens, early 20s, that the somatic work I was doing was regulation, and that I was there, thus, deemed regulated. And I could just put on my badge of regulation and be like, because I do somatic work. And, you know, that it was in to my late 20s, I started scratching my head going. I’m not sure I’m actually regulated.
Shannon Dunn 24:35
I was thinking that listening to you talking there that there’s quite a superficial I think, experience for so many people, not just about people in general around. Yeah, I meditate, you know, a few times a day or I’ll get up and I’ll do my 5am practice or whatever the thing is that you’ve adopted, thinking that will kind of fix everything. And seriouly, that whole narrative of you’re broken is an issue but that’s again, I feel like as a whole other podcast conversation. It’s kind of like these small kind of put a bandaid over the thing and I’m good – I meditate or whatever the thing is you do. I wear crystals in my pockets or in my bra or whatever, right? I use incense and essential oils. We’re knocking any of those things if they work for you, and you feel better for that, I’m all for that. And I use things like that, but it’s not a solution. If we’re looking for one, right?
Elisha Tichelle 25:39
It’s not. And I think the fact that we’re not initiated into the fullness of ourself, is the whole reason why we think there’s a solution that needs to be found. Right? So what’s really missing in our understanding about the nervous system and about regulation, is this idea that it’s something we’re meant to control. And that’s even taught a lot of nervous system work is taught from control yourself, control your emotions, control these things. And it’s really done a disservice to us actually evolving. So the reason my signature program is called Evolution, it is about evolving us as a species through understanding what the nervous system is actually here to teach us, what we’re actually understanding about our stress response. So much of of the nervous system works about like get out of your stress response, and never gonna happen. You’re never gonna get away from the stress response. It is wired in utero, it will be with you through your last breath. So getting away from it isn’t gonna work.
Shannon Dunn 26:46
No. And I again, I think that’s kind of that band aid solution of, but if I just wanted to control my nervous system, and not have a stress response to anything,
Elisha Tichelle 26:56
Shannon Dunn 26:57
I’m all good, right?
Elisha Tichelle 27:00
On those monitors what does flatline mean, right? This idea that being calm is this flatline we’re were non-responsive, I remember after doing a ton of work and I was just convinced at this point that I was healed. And so you know zen, and then something happened, and I got angry. And I remember having that initial kind of flare, that spike of emotion in my body, and then just bursting out laughing, that the next thought that had come in was like, I can’t believe I got angry, I thought that I was regulated. And then recognising, oh, isn’t that interesting that we think we’re going to do this work and we’re not going to experience the height, the lows, the fullness of our emotions, right.
Elisha Tichelle 27:42
And what we actually want is a nervous system that is responsive. So that it has access to all of the beauty of this life, which includes the moments that we’re meant to the angry because when we’re in the newness of angry if you have the appropriate information, it’s fuel, its telling us that we don’t agree, that something’s not right, that a boundary has been crossed, or whatever it might be. And I just think that so much of the rhetoric around emotions being low vibrations, all of these kinds of things, …. it’s all bullshit about controlling people. And I think the thing that we have to understand is that any modality that’s been created has been created through the collective consciousness with which it was held. Meaning that some of these things we want to espouse as being high wisdom, actually came right out of the patriarchy. No matter what someone’s intention of creating it was, if it was created through suppression, if it was created with the idea that certain bodies are allowed and certain bodies aren’t, certain ways of moving a body is okay, in certain ways of not moving, right, all of these things that we hear, why are we taught in meditation that you have to substrate?
Shannon Dunn 28:54
Yes, true. I’ve never done that my Liberator Engineer rebels against anything.
Elisha Tichelle 28:58
Elisha Tichelle 29:00
And so all of these ideas that we’re taking, that we’re not initiated into listening to our own wisdom, how does your body want to meditate? Right? How do you know that until you spend time experimenting and listening?
Shannon Dunn 29:13
It’s so interesting is when you pause and give yourself a chance to think about that. And I know in my coaching work, I’ve had so many conversations with clients over so many years now, where she’ll come to a session, or come to a time where we have together, and express a range of feelings from the anger, the frustration, the sadness, and then be like, I’m not supposed to feel these, because look at all these good stuff happening in my life. No, you want to feel all of it. Yeah, right.
Shannon Dunn 29:43
And there’s particular Archetypes that are more in tune with their feeling states, right, the Inspirer Believer being one that energies can be very peak and trough in terms of the way she’s expressed. And the Liberator Engineer, I had a little kind of internal laugh when you said around getting to a point of expressing anger because that’s an Archetype that has a real depth of emotion and often keeps everything kind of on the outside. Queen Rulers can too right? Keep it all together, like looking like I’m all capable and I’m all good. But when a Liberator Engineer is not expressing herself through the lens of what freedom is for her, that build up, and you may or may not remember me talking about, it’s like a volcanic energy.
Shannon Dunn 30:28
Beneath the outside is looking like everything’s calm, the slopes of the volcano like there’s flora and fauna and everything looks nice, the sky is blue, all of a sudden, there’s an eruption. And that’s where anger comes out. And it’s an interesting that that was the word that you used for that emotion that you were feeling. Because often, Liberator Engineers are perceived more by the people close to us who get to see our eruptions that don’t tend to happen very often. But I think, when they happen, they’re warranted. But people perceive that we’re angry a lot. And it’s like, no we’re actually very frustrated more than anything.
Shannon Dunn 31:06
Yeah. So interesting that, in relation to that, what do the Archetypes whether we’re talking the Thrive Factor Archetypes or any other Archetypal framework, what do they actually have to do with nervous system? Like, how do they come together?
Elisha Tichelle 31:20
Well, I think what the Archetypes can be so helpful for is they can show us where we want to move in our regulation towards full expression versus suppression. Yeah, right. Versus also that everyone’s looks the same. Right. And particularly with the Thrive Factor Archetypes, as you’ve said, there’s this interweaving of how they work together that’s so important. And it’s not just them in isolation.
Shannon Dunn 31:48
Two key things there; we’re not just one Archetype. And we’re not, like you said, our Archetypes in isolation, you’re not five different parts. I’m not four different parts that kind of show up and do their bit. They are constantly influencing each other in different ways.
Elisha Tichelle 32:06
So what’s great about that, is it can it can help me to have that inspiration or that aspiration towards what’s my highest expression, what’s my highest embodiment. And it gives me this personal yet non personal way of meeting it. Harder for me to see that through my personality, right, harder for me to get out of my own way, as the Archetypes can be these keys that help us know, what am I growing into? They also, because the way that you teach Archetypes and I work with Archetypes, too is like, there’s also these shadow parts.
Elisha Tichelle 32:40
Well, what’s the shadow? It’s the dysregulation. Its the part that’s not integrated? It’s the learning edge, right? And so we get to learn how do I apply what’s working, what’s already supported, what’s in regulation, coming into hold and gather up and support the dysregulated parts. So when I was talking about how, you know, meeting that Shapeshifter Alchemist and being like, Oh, my God, and so even though my Queen Ruler maybe wasn’t as out in the front of my life, in this way that she is now, like you said, like, I knew that about myself, I just wasn’t giving her permission for her to take her place.
Elisha Tichelle 33:19
So she was really easy for me to be like, Oh, she can come help this Shapeshifter part of me that keeps losing herself and losing her voice. And right, and so by looking at that place of like, what, what is it in my worthiness that’s feeling dysregulated? Right, like where do I lose my center. So we think about regulation and dysregulation in one way that we would work with it, it’s about holding our own power. When I’m in my power, I’m regulating towards my center, I’m able to be in the flow and the capacity of myself, when I’m not when I’m dysregulated I’m leaking my power, and it’s not moving towards the center, right. So this idea then that the Archetypes are going to help me keep finding my center and keep teaching me how to anchor into that truth that I already am but I’m also becoming. The fullness of all these Archetypes, I am learning to live that now.
Shannon Dunn 34:26
I am this. I now know I’m this. I know I can rely on knowing that I’m this. But it doesn’t mean that knowing and being something means that it’s effortless to express it and I think that’s a really important thing for people to understand. And listening to you then Elisha talking about the dysregulation and 100% the shadow or what we call in the Thrive Factor Framework – your potential challenges. And when they’re actualized that’s really the amplified dysregulation.
Shannon Dunn 34:58
But also your regulated self is when you are in this space where the strengths that you have innately through the lens of your Archetypes, they just show up in the world, they are you expressing yourself through all of the different strengths that we have. And the interaction of when our Archetypes work together in harmony and the strengths are amplified. But I think being able to work with the two parts of that, being able to be mindful of our strengths, our regulated parts, be intentional, conscious, compassionate about how we use them, curious about how we use them. And then to be mindful about how we can use those things to support our dysregulated parts. So our shadow parts so that we can integrate. And when that comes together, yeah, we’re in a greater sense of harmony is what we call, you may remember me referring to this at different times, it’s being in your Effortless Success Zone, effortless, not effort free, effortless. Importantly, I often remind people that there’s a difference there. But this is where things that you are in that state of flow, things feel good, you can feel like you are in your power, whatever that looks like and sounds like and feels like they’re people by definition. But that’s what it is, right?
Elisha Tichelle 36:21
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing that Archetypes can really help us do is not be afraid of the shadow or the dysregulation, but to see it as these opportunities for growth. These places where we’re learning something, and we’re integrating something and we’re becoming more of ourselves. And I think that when we have regulation and dysregulation opposing each other, and dysregulation gets this label of being bad and wrong and not good. And we all hold shame around it. And then we hide these things that we have shame about.
Elisha Tichelle 36:58
And so what I see in the coaching world, the way that a lot of these trauma informed or nervous system programs are taught, is to eradicate the dysregulation, which means we just get better at shoving it under the carpet and putting on a better mask. Yeah. And so how I actually got into the work that I’m doing, is that people sort of invited me into their coaching programs, to be the person who taught some of this work. And so kind of getting to be a fly on the wall and what was happening, and then doing my own part, and recognizing, oh, wait, I’ve got a bigger mission.
Elisha Tichelle 37:38
I can’t teach two classes to your students. This isn’t working. There’s a whole lot more that has to happen here. And so that’s how I ended up growing. And then people who were supposedly teaching this work or doing the coaching, and then it’s sort of like, oh, wait, can you help me? Right. And so this place, I think too that when our own effortless flow, right gets in, like our work starts to fall into place. When we’re in the thriving of our own Archetypes, and really following, you know, the way that they’re leading us, you don’t have to sort of be as like, cognitively stretching to figure out what you’re doing it just sort of falls into place.
Shannon Dunn 38:23
I think, though, then thats that having that self understanding the self awareness, the learning about things like we’re talking about, so that when that ease and effortlessness does become your reality, the ego and things that we often find in that shadow part of ourselves and the dysregulated part in the space of potential actualized challenges doesn’t come in and interrupt that flow. In fact, it’s when we can use the strengths, the regulated parts of ourselves, the being in our Effortless Success Zone, to say, Yeah, I see you. I see that thing. I hear what you’re saying. And at the same time, it’s not ignoring it, but it’s going “What are you trying to tell me?” It’s listening to what’s coming up, the feeling we have, the message we’re getting.
Shannon Dunn 39:21
Personally, for me, I think the shadow was where we actually build a relationship with the greatest depth of our wisdom. Rather than the being the place where it’s all those things about myself I don’t like or people have judged me or told me are not okay, not appropriate to share. And I think in reflecting back to choosing to use the word “strengths” for light and “potential” when then actualized challenges for shadow was a very interesting 14 years ago creating the Thrive Factor Framework, but also because of my experience in the counseling and therapeutic world, where shawdow even in a space like that where it was taught, in that therapeutic context, was still given a bad rap and a negative, it was like it’s a bad thing. No, it’s not, don’t do that.
Shannon Dunn 40:07
So changing the language not to, again, deny shadow because I use that word a lot more now. But to make it accessible to women in the modern world, let’s use language that makes sense to us in a different kind of a way. And then we still talk about it once you’re in kind of understanding about your light and shadow from that therapeutic, you know, Archetypal psychology perspective. So, yeah, it’s been a No, I definitely we’re not denying shadow here. Not at all.
Elisha Tichelle 40:36
Yeah, really brilliant, like, kudos to 14 years ago you
Shannon Dunn 40:40
Visionary Creator, I thank her every day.
Elisha Tichelle 40:45
Look back at that, pat yourself and be like, good job, you.
Shannon Dunn 40:49
And it’s been interesting, because in talking about not labeling those parts of ourselves, but if they needed to have names, so that we could talk about the different attributes of ourselves Archetypally. And so in talking about that and explaining why begin, particularly things like why potential, you know, challenges, we don’t just say challenges, and again, because that language is perceived to be negative, and contracting. But talking about that gives me the opportunity to then talk about light and shadow and the history of that with Archetypal psychology. So opening that up. But, you know, 14 years ago, I know about you, because you’ve used Archetypes, like I have for a very long time and been very interested in this work. But I’d use the word Archetype and people would either look at me blankly, roll their eyes, or I remember one woman saying to me, What language are you speaking? I can tell you about the origins of the derivatives of where it comes from, because I have a Mentor Teacher Archetype. But these days, it’s language that is so much more ingrained in our everyday like, it’s words that you know, light, shadow, Archetypes. They just exist more commonly in a lot of language around the world.
Elisha Tichelle 42:02
Which is both good and hard. And I feel like, yeah, choosing to language my work. So a lot of people look at the way my work has changed over the past five years, it looks like it’s changed a lot. It’s definitely deepened and grown and I am more clear on things. I really been doing the same work the whole time, right. But nervous system wasn’t something that like if I you could see it, not in the coaching world, not in the spiritual world. It didn’t work. It’s really only been over the past five years that it’s like it’s made sense to use these words in this way. And with that, there’s so many misnomers because now it just gets thrown around. Right. So now in one way, it’s easier to talk about because it’s more mainstream. On the other hand, there’s so much re-education and myth busting.
Elisha Tichelle 42:08
People like you and I come in to educate – Mentor Teachers. Interesting that this is where we’re at. Because the next question I wanted to ask you is around another word that gets bandied around a lot. And I feel it’s a word that has a lot of misunderstanding. And again, it’s like a trendy kind of thing. In this self help, guidance, coaching, mentoring, whatever we call it space, whether we’re talking business or the spiritual space or something else, the health space, but it’s the word “embodiment” or “embodied”.
Shannon Dunn 43:39
And I don’t really feel from the outside in and listening to conversations and things even that get taught by people that supposedly know the ins and outs of this. I’m not saying they’re all wrong, but I feel like there’s something missing for a lot of people. And it gets used a lot in marketing language, embody this, embody that. But are people really being supported to have an embodiment practice and experience? I don’t think so. So, you know, what embodiment is, tell us like through your lens and all this extensive experience and expertise that you have, Elisha, what it really means to be embodied. And I guess where do we start, if we’re not sure if we are doing it right – for you want to put a label of right or wrong – but if you want to be more embodied in something, where we kind of start with that?
Elisha Tichelle 44:30
Well, so let me first starting by saying if we’re in a body, there is an embodied aspect, right. And I think that is usually the place where most people are speaking from. Right so the innateness of being in a body. Right? As embodiment. And I get that, I can understand. However, what I would say is what I’m speaking of embodiment, I’m speaking of the resonance that the nervous system is facilitating and attuned to, right, at the level of consciousness that is open through the body, at the cellular level, at the subtle level, at the biophysical level, right of all these different levels of self, what is being met and facilitated and used to move into form?
Elisha Tichelle 45:30
For me what embodiment is not, is it’s not expression. And while expression may, and I mean, capital M, a, , y may, expression may be experience, like, you’ve may be able to see someone’s embodiment through their expression, maybe. I’ll tell you about maybe in a moment, it’s not the same thing. And they’re not about the same thing. So my embodiment is about my own inhabiting of the experience of myself. Being in the indwelling, of my own resonance, my own inner landscape, my own energies, my own accessing of the self, that is me. And then I can choose to express that, but embodiment is not about moving my body. It’s not about doing something with my body. It is really about how do I inhabit the self that is moving through this system, the nervous system, the fascial system, the muscular system, the subtle anatomy, the chakras, all of these aspects, right? So embodiment is a lot more esoteric, in my opinion. And yes, there are practices that can invite us towards an experience of self. But you can’t actually practice embodiment.
Shannon Dunn 47:04
There’s been a lot of trying to intellectualize in bodies.
Elisha Tichelle 47:08
And control, control it and teach you here are the three things that you’re going to do to become embodied. Or if you move your body like this, and your sexy little bikini and wrap your legs around, then you’re embodied. Like all of those things – that’s expression. So what I would say is embodiment is inhabiting. Right, and expression is expression. Now, what I would also say the reason I say maybe, is that any expression that I’m doing so that you are experiencing something about me, usually is moving out of my own embodiment, and in towards an articulation where I’m might still be connected to an aspect of my embodiment, but it’s really about me being received by another. Right? So it’s not necessarily about my experience of myself.
Elisha Tichelle 47:59
Most of us are living in an unconscious expression that is not about meeting myself. So one of the things I teach my students is you are talking to yourself. Every time you speak, I think I’m talking to you, Shannon, I’m actually talking to me, Elisha. Right, you happen to be the sounding board, the echo chamber by which I get to receive myself. That then is moving my expression back towards a place of embodiment. Right, so then I’m going to create this reciprocal flow of expression and embodiment. So that through the expression, through the giving of myself towards you, and the receiving of you, you receiving me, sending that back towards me in the way that you’re receiving me, allows me to receive myself fuller, right.
Elisha Tichelle 48:44
And so now you become a mirror for me. Right, because now I can receive myself through our connection. So that’s a way that expression embodiment can work together. But most of the time, we have been conditioned to believe that my expression is so that you can validate me. So that you can think that I’m something else, so that you’ll buy my bla bla bla or that you’ll see that I’m perfect or all of those things, right? None of that’s really about embodiment. And people can put up a good freakin facade. And some of the people that are touting themselves as embodiment coaches, embodiment specialists, overly embodied people, all of these things have the biggest facade up. Right? And some of them sadly, don’t even recognize it. Hook, line and sinker into these principles that are actually coming right out of patriarchy, right out of control, right out of suppression of the freedom of self into a control and a contriving of self.
Shannon Dunn 49:51
It is sad, I’m hearing your Liberator Engineer come to life again there in that. I think those of you that are not familiar with the Liberator Engineer as well as being obsessed with freedom. One of the interactions between that expression of freedom by definition for a Liberator Engineer is being able to see through veils of ego. As you were just saying that so many of the people that are out there, touting and expertise and mastery in this area of embodiment, and many other things, not necessarily really do that there is the BS that’s out there. And I love my Liberator Engineer for being able to sense where there is some BS going on. I am quiet about that. I kind of make predictions and say, yep, I’m sensing this could go this way. Or there’s something’s going to happen here. This is kind of all going to fall down, if you like. Not that I want that for anybody. But it’s not ego driven energy that we often express. So really interesting.
Shannon Dunn 51:00
So I’ve got a few more questions to ask you. When I invite all their guests to come on, I asked you to share with me, what someone who knows you well would say about you. And I love bringing this in as a question and your answer, if you remember, was making deep concepts practical and tangible. I read that and it’s like, because I know you. Of course. Yes, of course, Elisha does that. But tell us what that means, like, you know, making deep concepts practical and tangible. Because the Shapeshifter is often not practical and tangible, because it’s more of constantly shifting, changing, evolving on that, and the visibility aspects that can come through your expression of the Shapeshifter Alchemist. So tell us about what this is. What is it?
Elisha Tichelle 51:51
Yeah, I think that there is a way. So in my gene keys, I don’t know if you know that form at all. So in my gene keys, I’m sitting in the place of my radiance, and my purpose, are truth and illumination. And so, and Richard Red explains them as the tantra and the yoga. So this place where like, I am all about going into these high experiences, living into this esoteric, mysterious place, but also it has to be in my bones. And so I think that just and I think there’s something about my own neurodivergency, see my own confusion about human life that has just always been open to this curiosity, but then like, okay, like, now how do we land this? Like, what does this mean? How do we do something like that?
Shannon Dunn 52:37
Exactly what I was thinking, what do we do with it?
Elisha Tichelle 52:39
What do we do with this, right? Like, for me, there has to be, it’s great for…peak experience is great, but what are we going to do with it? Mundane is great, but what are we going to do with that? So I think on both ends, I’m super curious about how are we going to live this? How’s it going to be purposeful? And so I love to take random, academic, esoteric, crazy concepts, and actually give the permission to understand how does this apply to daily life. I think where this became really important for me was when I saw people who had great information, but the fruit of their life were crap, they were it was bed fruit. They could give a great speech, or they could give and write an amazing book, but they still felt like crap about themselves. Or they couldn’t let themselves be intimate with another or all of these things. And I just thought, Wait, how do we get more into the wholeness of this? Right? How do we take these lofty concepts? But also how do we live them in the bones? So for me, I think also to everything about my life is about being a bridge, multi-racial. You know, all of these different aspects of my own codes that make me feel like part of my job is translation. Part of my legacy here is like to translate from one form of energy to another. And yeah, so I think that’s what I do.
Shannon Dunn 54:02
There’s no doubt in my mind when I read that I was like of course. I’ve kind of had that response for most things that have been shared into that question. But I love to ask about it. Because it’s like of all the answers you could have given. I’m always curious. What did someone say to me not long ago, you just a busy body. I said no, I’m a curious soul. I always have been and I like to understand. Its the Liberator Engineer and Mentor Teacher coming together. We like to understand how things work and what we’re going to do with it. Make sense. All right.
Shannon Dunn 54:36
So we’re getting closer to wrapping up now. But before we do that, I’ve got some incredibly important questions to ask you that I ask all of our guests to come on to the show. So the first one if you could give us an insight into what role leadership plays in your life in business.
Elisha Tichelle 54:52
Everything. It plays every role. I really don’t think that we’re going to turn this ship of humanity around without understanding ourselves as leaders, and learning to lead our own lives and our own self. So my first job, the first line of my job description is to lead myself. And to lead with compassion, to lead with clarity, to lead with focus, to really lead the beliefs that I choose to articulate in my life, like, really fully. And I think that the better that I lead myself, the better I’m able to show up as a leader for others, and to lead them into their own self leadership. Yeah, so I think that leadership is for me, it’s something that I unapologetically call people into, and at least a couple of times a year on my newsletter, you’re gonna get like, “and you’re a leader too” kind of call to action. Kind of wake up.
Shannon Dunn 55:54
It’s true, it is the truth, right. And I have loved seeing what feels like a big shift from leadership being, I guess, defined as an externalized expression, as in you lead others to self leadership. Again, the Thrive Factor Framework in its initial iteration was called Personal Leadership Style. It was 14 years ago, I was talking about personal leadership. Now I use the phrase self leadership, it’s one in the same. But bringing it back into our quality of leading in an external sense, in terms of being able to support, guide, inspire, whatever others in what we choose to do, is so much richer, and has such incredible value when we first understand leadership, through the lens of self.
Elisha Tichelle 56:44
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I don’t believe you can lead someone where you haven’t gone. And, yeah, and I also think I was, I was kind of bought as a leader really early in my life because I was verbose. I was excited to teach. Right. And what I appreciate about that was I feel like I stepped into seeing myself as a leader very easily and very young. But what happened was, I really had some hard lessons of understanding that leadership wasn’t about control. Leadership wasn’t about manipulation, wasn’t about getting my way, wasn’t about these different, was about being right. And I think that the growth that we go on when we choose to be a leader is immense.
Shannon Dunn 57:36
Yes, so much. So there’s so many different iterations of leadership that we have as examples, but a lot of them as you said, they don’t really, necessarily serve a healthy, useful purpose. So the next question I have for you, how do you know when you’re thriving?
Elisha Tichelle 57:58
I love this. I know that I’m thriving, by the way that I’m able to stay fluid and open, the way I’m able to stay curious and receptive. The amount of fun that I’m having, amount of laughter thats in my day, and in my ability to be able to be responsive rather than rigid.
Shannon Dunn 58:23
Beautiful, I love these answers. I love that I decided to ask these questions. The answers and the fact that there is often some synchronicity with our different guests that we’ve had, and yet they’re also so varied in such a beautiful way, right? It’s so so cool. So how can people connect with you the easiest, like if anyone’s listening, you’re like, oh, you know what? She knows what she’s talking about, particularly around the nervous system embodiment. Because you do. Where’s the best places for people to connect? And we will make sure that all the links go into the show notes. But yeah, tell us now. So anyone listening in can go and connect with you.
Elisha Tichelle 58:59
I love playing over on Instagram right now. Yeah, that’s pretty good. I am still @elisha_halpin on Instagram. I’m the crossfade of a name change. So you can find me there.
Shannon Dunn 59:11
Yeah. Awesome. So I think if you search for Elisha, you’ll find it. When you do it, name change on Instagram – remind me, message me and we will make sure that the show notes are updated. So anyone listening to this down the track can easily find you through that link as well. So my very wise friend, what is the final piece of wisdom that you’d love to share with the kind of ambitious, wise motivated impact creating legacy creating souls that are listening to us today?
Elisha Tichelle 59:40
What I would say is, don’t be so concerned with all the modalities. Take the time to start listening to yourself. And this is probably my Alchemist, and my Liberator Engineer, but I’m gonna say in that listening to your self learn to follow your own ways. Take the wisdom that other people have, and then be able to let it metabolize within you to your own way of finding the support that you need, your own rules for all of it, your own ways through. I think that we have to weave a table where every version of leadership is welcome.
Shannon Dunn 1:00:28
Beautiful. So, so wise. I love it. Again, no pressure, but I feel like when Mentor Teachers come to the table to have conversation before She Leads She Thrives, we’re going to get wisdom on another level. Is it the wisdom woman, and I would say more than 95%, probably in the 98% of women in my world have their Mentor Teacher Archetype. And I love it because I get to hang out with other incredibly wise souls, and have really interesting conversations like we have had today about all kinds of things. Learn, take on board what makes sense to you. Listen beyond the words that we’re hearing. And what I want to do with that, because knowledge gathering is something that’s such a focus for the mentor teacher, but she’s really in her most fully expressed space and state when she acknowledges the wisdom she has and operates from that place, not her knowledge.
Elisha Tichelle 1:01:37
Yeah, real wisdom is going to remind you of what you already know.
Shannon Dunn 1:01:41
Yeah, that’s huge. Oh, it’s been so good talking to you again. I look forward to another day as we said right at the beginning. Before we started recording today, one day in another like a villa in Tuscany, or get to hang out who knows?
Elisha Tichelle 1:01:58
Maybe a villa in a little cottage in Glastonbury.
Shannon Dunn 1:02:01
I was just thinking that. I was gonna say for anyone is the singing. Elisha has an incredibly beautiful relationship with the United Kingdom and particularly the area around Glastonbury, if you know about it. Or if you don’t, go and Google it. I have an awareness of the the incredible opportunity of what you can experience there, but when we went there, it was for the music festival in my 20s. I was living in the UK. But I’m glad that I didn’t try and have an experience of Glastonbury like I want to now as an older, kind of wiser woman back then, because it wouldn’t have landed, I think in the way that it could do now.
Shannon Dunn 1:02:46
So one day, but yes, maybe I’ll meet you in Glastonbury instead. I love it. Beautiful, so much for joining me, for saying yes, when I reached out and said, Come with me on the podcast. Very cool. Listeners – thank you for tuning in and listening to Elisha and I. If something’s kind of stood out for you today, do something with it. Like listen to what Elisha talked about with embodiment, with integration, with all the different things that we have covered today. If you’re curious about your own Archetypes, I talk regularly about how you can find out what your Thrive Factor Archetypes are, take action, like follow that instinct, that intuition, that wisdom that you have. And reach out to connect with her.
Shannon Dunn 1:03:26
If you have any questions about anything or you ever want to share any feedback with me I’m always open to receiving it. So if you send you can send an email through to email@example.com and myself and my team. Always love to hear from you. So wherever you are in the world, stay safe. Love yourself, step into your wisdom and have the most incredible day. Thank you. Thank you
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