Awakening the Feminine Queen w/ Amy Towle – She Leads She Thrives Podcast Ep 39

Shannon Dunn  00:02

A huge hello everyone. I’m Shannon Dunn, your business and leadership coach and host here at She Leads She Thrives podcast. I say this every time I welcome a new guest but I’m very excited. If you haven’t got the grips of my Inspirer Believer Archetype, the excitement is real and genuine but I think it’s a next level excitement to talk to you beautiful Amy Towle. So I’m so grateful that you’re here today. 

Shannon Dunn  00:25

So Amy and I met in the online space like I have met a lot of the guests. She and I both in Australia, but on opposite sides of the country, like almost kind of like Amy’s in North Queensland and I’m in the southern part of Western Australia. So literally on a diagonal. And when we met in person for the first time was in Tuscany in Italy, which was so cool, right? You know, I love that. So many amazing people that when we live in the same country, but we met overseas and we have hung out in Bali together, in the Mornington Peninsula of Victoria, we were at a festival together for Seven Sisters. We’ve had lots of fun times together. I’m sure some of those will come into the stories we share today. So it’s so cool to have you here honey and I’m just excited about what we may end up talking about because I will warn you, with Amy you never kind of know what you’re gonna get.  I know how to kind of draw out all the cool stories.

Amy Towle  01:19

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. Yes, I’m very very excited to be here to definitely

Shannon Dunn  01:25

Amy said a lots going on in her personal life- huge evolution. We’ll get to talk about some of those  in the episode today. But I was just saying to her I think the last time we actually did this and had a conversation was when I hosted a summit back in April of 2020. Her world has radically changed since then, in a good way. So yeah, it’s really cool to be here face to face again in a different way. 

Shannon Dunn  01:25

So let me tell you a bit about her from my kind of bio perspective. So Amy Towle is the creator of Temple of She, a space for the willing woman. She supports women to be practitioners in the revolution of the feminine, as a Yoni massage practitioner and trainer, certified intuitive guide and registered midwife. She has over a decade of experience working with women in powerful yet vulnerable self exploration. Of course. 

Shannon Dunn  02:14

After experiencing a 21st century witch hunt within midwifery – I’m sure that will come up. If it doesn’t, can you kind of just weave it in somewhere in my question? Amy was compelled to go within deep to find out who she really was as a woman. She was then driven to explore the untapped power women hold their pussies. Women hold a key they are terrified to access.  Yes, I couldn’t even say that word. wait, I’m not  terrified. Maybe just on the behalf of the collective I couldn’t even read that out. 

Shannon Dunn  02:31

The key unlocks their powerful presence and pleasure. Amy loves to push the envelope get deep and dirty into the taboos of our world. She holds your hand while pushing you to get uncomfortable, she holds the mirror while you’re look at your vulva. Literally, I’ve seen pictures. And also give you one of the best hugs you’ve ever had. And I can attest to that. Between Amy and Shannon hugs.  So oh, goodness me its like when I was thinking a lot of questions, like 1000 different places we could go to right. 

Shannon Dunn  03:21

But my fabulous friend, you don’t exactly work in a traditional industry. We just heard about that.  Same time, kind of with the Pioneer Seeker Archetype, you weren’t likely to ever be mainstream. And I imagine that having that Archetype, which is for anyone who’s listening is not familiar, haven’t gone to listen to the Archetype episode, don’t know about the Pioneer Seeker. This is the disruptor. She’s also got a Queen energy. Amy’s got the double Queen because she’s got the Queen Ruler and the Pioneer Seeker. But the Queen from the Pioneer Seeker’s perspective is the Queen of the Underworld. So these women do things, they work in areas, they do stuff that a lot of the rest of us find incredibly uncomfortable. So I’d love as a starting point, honey, to hear what it’s been like for you navigating the business space. You know, when what you do and champion isn’t easy for others to talk about?

Amy Towle  04:09

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Shannon Dunn  04:11

I’m literally where can we start? And I’ve watched people just go like, did she say what I think she said?  like that kind of energy on their faces and their bodies kind of tighten up. Men and women. But I think I’ve seen women be more uncomfortable.

Amy Towle  04:27

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. I think men have a more of an immaturity around this stuff than women do. Women -it’s just sheer terror. And that really dictates the responses and interaction that then follow on from that. Absolutely. But yeah, so to answer your question, I think yeah, really? Well, a big part of it was my own personal journey. That’s what led me into this work and, and then it was kind of like okay, making a business out of this. And this, because it is such a huge void that exists in our society where this area that we just don’t talk about, that we don’t dive into, that we don’t explore, that we pretend is not there, that we shut it down. But it’s actually linked to so many of our obstacles, of our fears, of our belief story, of our limitations within our business, our finances, our relationships, our pleasure, everything that we are as women, it’s generally hooked into all of those. 

Amy Towle  05:31

So I kind of realized that this is what I wanted to do.  I’ve been a midwife for about 17 years now. And six or seven years ago, now,  I was working in Melbourne in a big hospital there, and I was the midwife at a birth where the baby died. And that wasn’t the first for me. I mean, I’ve worked in several countries with humanitarian aid and all kinds of settings and death is very much a part of birth for me.

Shannon Dunn  06:06

I think as a society we ignore that, depending on where we live, because people don’t hear about it. And we assume that with medical technology, advancements or whatever you want to call them, that that would never happen, which is not true. 

Amy Towle  06:19

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So this one, you know, as always, it’s very difficult, and it’s awful. But it wasn’t new for me. However, what was different this time was the hospital system that I was within, decided that it was my fault, and to persecute me for that. So that unfolded this 12 month, undoing really of me and just you know, I was a midwife who worked 60 to 80 hours a week. I lived and breathed it. I was a bloody good midwife. All my girlfriends were midwives. It was all I talked about. It was all I did. It was everything. And then all of a sudden, I couldn’t do it. No. And you know, they stood me down while it was all investigated. And not only was I told you can’t do it, but you’re so bad at it that you killed someone. 

Shannon Dunn  07:10

I’m not shocked, because we see and we hear these kinds of things happening around the world all the time. But at the same time, I’m disgusted that it does happen. 

Amy Towle  07:20

yeah. Oh, absolutely. And it was just, yeah, it was astonishing to experience but it was Yeah. So incredible, in so many ways. And so that destroyed me, basically. It just absolutely destroyed me who I was. And I went into the darkest..,

Shannon Dunn  07:38

ripped away your identity and everything you thought yourself to be.

Amy Towle  07:43

And that was it. Who was I if I wasn’t a midwife. What’s left without that? And so it was this incredible undoing of who I was, and everything. And it went through this 12 month process. And I had to go through it, I had to go through the process, I had to jump through the hoops and do all the stuff and see the corruption and the shit that goes on. And then get to the end of the 12 months and have the hospital and registration organisation go oh, no, it’s all good. You didn’t do anything wrong – carry on. And I was kind of in pieces on the floor and just went urgh. How to f do I carry on.

Shannon Dunn  08:23

How do you go on when you’ve literally had your whole world ripped apart, examined under the microscope, the judgment, the criticism, you know, you don’t just suddenly wake up and go, Okay, that’s finished. Now. I’m all good.

Amy Towle  08:36

Ya know, so I walked into the office handed in my resignation and said, I’m out. And I never went back. And so that was a big unfolding of midwifery for me and how I did it. And in that process, I found Yoni massage, and I found my sexual self, which is kind of weird thing to find out that process, but…

Shannon Dunn  08:57

I feel like because I, you know, just for the listeners knowing I don’t completely not know Amy’s story, but I’m hearing it in more detail now than I probably ever have. It feels to me like it was such a natural progression for you to lead to where you were meant to be. If you want to use that phrase, I was horrible that you have to go through all of the crappy stuff that you did. But you know, let’s look at your Archetypes. You weren’t going to call in a small lesson, right? 

Amy Towle  09:23

No, that’s right. And I think there’s so many times in our lives where we’re like, Oh, should I change? Should I do something else? No, I’ll stay in stay here and the Universe literally has to give us a massive kick up the ass – or maybe that’s just me – just make any change and go in a different direction. 

Shannon Dunn  09:38

If you’re listening and you that you don’t get that, I’m not gonna say it’s definitely coming but probably is.

Amy Towle  09:44

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, absolutely. All of that has put me to where I am now.  I now have been in business of Temple of She for six years where I began as a Yoni massage practitioner. I discovered this really controversial modality that I was like, Wow, that’s incredible because from midwifery, I saw women who were incredibly disconnected from their bodies from the waist down. Birth was so traumatizing, so difficult and terrible for them because they vagina, what vagina? I don’t have a vagina, what are you talking about? You got to put your fingers where?!.

Shannon Dunn  10:21

If you’re listening and you don’t know this my very first career, I was a registered nurse, not a midwife, like Amy. But as part of my general nursing training, we did a midwifery rotation. And we were required to observe a certain number of births. And I can remember being like  maybe 19. And watching that and going, these women are so like, something’s kind of not right here. And that’s probably what it was. That they were so disconnected, like their body was this vessel to birth a child, but their actual connection to the body was not there It wasn’t loving and rich. And it was a part kind of a purpose serving function. 

Amy Towle  10:58

Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly right. Exactly. And birth is such an incredible cracking open, you know, there’s very few transformations that a woman goes through in life that that big, so it’s an opportunity for huge trauma, or huge growth, and that relationship with our body can often dictate which it is. And so I then fell into this modality that was like, Wow, this can really address all of that. So I could see the power of Yoni massage from the beginning. And so that’s why I wanted to run with it with all my midwifery knowledge and the background I had. And I did, I ran with it, and then women were coming forward, and they wanted something else. And what else have you got? How else can we work with you? And then, you know, create a program and then another program. And then people were like, teach me what you do. I want to learn what you do. And I was like, Oh, God, I can’t possibly do that. I’m not good enough for that. Blah, blah, blah, you know, all the stories.

Shannon Dunn  11:51

Stuff comes up. Yes.

Amy Towle  11:54

So then it took me two years to create my own Yoni massage practitioner training. And because, you know, this, tantra and spirituality, and all this stuff is a completely unregulated industry.  I could see how the impact that was having on people who were calling themselves practitioners. So they go and do a weekend course, or, you know, even less, or I’ve heard stories of people learning from YouTube, and then going out and calling themselves practitioners and offering this service. 

Amy Towle  12:33

So I wanted to address that with part of what midwifery had offered me, you know, which is a highly regulated industry, where you have ongoing professional development and kind of merge the two to create a standard in the industry, which is what I’ve done. So for four years now, I’ve been providing that training. And the impact is yeah, the ripple is really now becoming pronounced, which is amazing. And it’s been such a big journey of being seen and yelling from the rooftops, something that makes so many people uncomfortable,

Shannon Dunn  13:07

Right, and so much, so much. And you’re when I first met you in person, as I said, it was in Tuscany, and that was in by September 2018. Yeah, yeah. Again,  this person here sitting in this seat talking, who has such a love of travel knows exactly all the last trip she did before pre 2020. So yes, it was September 2018. And I remember you telling me about this thing you were going to like, you know, launch or birth, we could say that let’s go highly appropriate for what we’re talking about. And I just remember getting so excited for you. Then when we did your profiling and saw your Archetypes –  of course you are. But that was before it was actually a thing. 

Amy Towle  13:46

Still figuring it all out. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s been such a yeah, my journey has really dictated what the training is. Because I came into the industry with a four day training. And that was it. And what I really saw was that they need a mentor, they need a space to talk about it. Oh my god, this happened in the session. Is that normal? What do I do when a client asks me this?

Shannon Dunn  14:13

And I love that you do that. That to me is drawing on, you know, I guess some of the best of mental health professional kind of practice and psychology that space of supervision, supervisory models. There’s another episode,  I don’t know where it’s gonna go live before yours or after. But you know, anyone who is listening look out for the episode was Sas Petherick. We talked about supervision a lot. I bought that into the self leadership coaching certification with a Thrive Factor Framework, because it is so needed that safe space to unpack and as you said, Is this normal? Is this not normal? What do I do here? Someone asked me this, how do I respond? You know, that’s not a regular thing in these kinds of industries. And, again, coming from the background I have, like you, draw on the best of that professional kind of structure and guidance that we’ve had in our other lives I guess as other industries. So that’s very cool. Yeah,

Amy Towle  15:03

Yeah, well, it’s needed. It’s really, really important, especially with the vulnerability that is in this work, when you’re asking women to come into a space, to get naked, to have their vagina, vulva full body massage, they need to be safe in that. And that, for me is non-negotiable. 

Shannon Dunn  15:24

It’s not just saying, or using the word safe or safety. It’s actually knowing what that actually is. And I guess, not guess I know, being mindful of the reality that every individual will define safety and what it means for them to feel safe differently, right?

Amy Towle  15:40

Yeah, absolutely. And it varies. Man does it vary.  And that’s why my training is six months, because these women have to be able to cater to that, and tailor to each client that comes to them, as well as deal with their own shit as the practitioner because you can’t be bringing that into the space. So it’s yeah, it’s been incredible. And to have it as a business and to then be an entrepreneur, basically, with a sexual based business has been lots of fun. But also very difficult and very challenging. And, you know, being blocked from Facebook, I don’t know how many times.

Shannon Dunn  16:21

I want to talk to you about that. So that is a perfect lead in because that’s my next question. I was like, getting banned from social media, and I know particularly Facebook, has been a regular occurrence. I know it’s something you laugh at, and a lot of us that know you laugh at, because like, Oh, here she goes again. Right. But what’s the, I guess there’s lots of funny stories, I’d love to hear one of them. Whatever one kind of comes to mind. And also to hear about how you were able to connect or stay connected to your growing audience, despite or maybe in spite of the “guidelines”- I’m using air quotes here -of what to post and not post because they’re also very open to misinterpretation, but interpretation. Tell us a story, and then how you actually moved around that regardless, because in those times that it was obvious that you weren’t on Facebook, I don’t feel like I had no contact with you. There was presence there. Yeah. Once you know, Amy, like she’s….

Amy Towle  17:22

I infiltrate your soul. Yeah, well, I guess particularly in the beginning. And I think my Pioneer Seeker had a lot to do with this. That real like, pushing the envelope, and just, I don’t give a shit Facebook, I’m gonna post what I like. And then, consequences. 

Shannon Dunn  17:43

And it is an Archetype that will go to the point of pushing the boundaries, or pushing the envelope, be cheeky, be sassy, you know, deliberately use language or imagery just to kind of get a….it was a disruptor. It’s just to get people just stop for a moment and shock them. Yeah, it’s not done in a malicious way. I just will say that because some people that are more sensitive archetypes often feel that Pioneer Seeker’s are kind of doing things that are naughty. And doing it out of like a maliciousness orr spite. Trust me, that’s not where it’s usually coming from it all. 

Amy Towle  18:20

I’m coming from the perspective that conversations can change a lot. But if we don’t have the conversations, nothing changes. So I’m putting the seeds there for the conversations to be had. And yeah, so I would post things on Facebook that would have nipples or would have pubic hair, thats probably about as obscene or extreme as it ever really got.

Shannon Dunn  18:45

It’s so interesting, isn’t it that images of human bodies are so…

Amy Towle  18:51

Women’s bodies. 

Shannon Dunn  18:52

Women’s bodies – yes.  Thank you for clarifying that, can cause so much controversy.

Amy Towle  18:57

So yeah, I would get banned or blocked from Facebook for 30 days at a time, which meant no access. Nothing posting on Facebook. And when I was building my business that was crippling. It was because people were sending me messages inquiring about services, I could literally do nothing about it for 30 days, and funnily enough – how’s this sabotage  -it would always happen around when I was launching something. 

Amy Towle  19:29

So I had to then figure out okay, how do I work with this. How do I you know, still deliver a message, still plant the seeds for the conversations, but do it in a way that is somewhat socially acceptable. So it was learning that and getting creative with my content, getting creative with my images. Yeah. And potentially playing the good girl for a little while to get off the blacklist, although I don’t think I am ever off the blacklist. So that my images were accepted again. And it was a process, but a lot of that was about me accepting that I couldn’t just be this big disruptor. That I had to play the game essentially to get out there.

Shannon Dunn  20:16

And that is not something that most Pioneer Seekers or Queen Rulers for that matter. And you’ve got the both Archetypes, like to be told, that you’ve got to conform and follow a certain something and play the game so that you can be seen. 

Amy Towle  20:32

I’ve fought with Facebook many times. 

Shannon Dunn  20:35

I have no doubt.

Amy Towle  20:38

The biggest way that I got around that was establishing my mailing list. Because what I realized is that’s mine. And it’s not censored. And it’s not dictated by anyone else in any way. And that is where I can give the real juice, the real everything. And so that’s what I started to do, was to build my mailing list and say, Look, if you really want the good stuff, the stuff that society tells us isn’t okay, or that we shouldn’t be putting on social media. That’s where you need to be hanging out. And that was how I learned to maneuver around the limitations of social media definitely.

Shannon Dunn  21:12

Yeah, I know. That is just a valuable business lesson in itself is remembering that you don’t own anything that you put up on any social media platform. It’s not yours, despite the fact you may be the originator of the content, the imagery, it does not belong to you. And if those platforms did shut down overnight, which we never know what’s possible, we’ve all been through things that we never thought would happen in the last few years. You have no connection with those individuals that may be interacting with your content every single day, unless they are part of your email community. 

Amy Towle  21:53

Actually I had a really interesting experience recently, in November last year, where all of a sudden, one morning my Facebook account just blew up. My inbox was just getting message, after message, after message. And likes and comments on a post. I was like, What is going on? And before my eyes, like the notifications, were just ping, ping, bing, bing, bing. I couldn’t keep up with it. What’s happening here?!  and someone somehow had shared one of my promo videos for my practitioner training – again, I was at launch. And it was just going nuts. Absolutely nuts. 

Amy Towle  22:30

Like, I think I was up to 600,000 views within an hour and the comments were, I don’t even know, like, 2000, 3000 comments or something, and my inbox was just going as much, but they were all from foreign men. Generally speaking, or not speaking, but either Indian, Pakistani, Arabic, something. And a lot of them were either sexually based comments or interactions, or you’re the devil woman, you need to have your soul baptized, blah, blah, blah. 

Amy Towle  23:11

And it was so intense that I had to, like, just switch everything off and delete the …well actually Facebook then deleted the video because it was gaining traction. And it was just like, wow, that was really intense experience for many, many reasons for me, even the experience of going viral, whatever that is, but just getting so much attention, but also the overwhelm of the haters and not my target audience. And I mean, it was great. It brought my Facebook up to 12,000 followers. But you know, 9000 of those are not my target audience. 

Shannon Dunn  23:52

I’ve heard lots of stories about people going “So cool, I’ve grown my audience on social media so much” And my question every single time is, is that audience your ideal target audience? And, you know, some people are like, I don’t know. And others are like, of course, it must be. No, like, not necessarily, and this is where things like vanity metrics, like how many likes and follows and all that kind of stuff. Be mindful. 

Shannon Dunn  24:18

You know, I had a conversation with a client of mine recently, and she had observed someone that she and I both know, in common, who has a business that’s very part time or casual, really, she’s hardly ever on social media, but she’s kind of suddenly jumped up large numbers in her Instagram following in a short space of time. And so this client of mine was like puzzled by it, and I was like, I’m not suggesting she’s doing anything she shouldn’t have,  or paid for followers or those kinds of things. But I would be surprised too if that was natural organic growth. So I said, Let it go. Stop focusing on the number and focus on your own. That kind of thing. And are they again, and I’m having a look at some of the content and you can see the interactions are like. They were from accounts that I would suggest are not ideal clients for that individual. I’d much rather they were my people that want to connect and interact then that kind of audience. 

Amy Towle  25:14

That’s exactly right. Yeah. Good old social media.

Shannon Dunn  25:19

Right? Yeah. And you only talk about something that is you, it shouldn’t be controversial, but it is taken as controversy for a large percentage of the world. Anyway, let’s talk more about your Thrive Factor Archetypes. So I remember when we were in Tuscany together, and I put that offer out there for the women that were there to do the profiling and to have that time while we were there, one on one too, so I can introduce you to your Archetypes. You were very Pioneer Seeker- like,  the very first one who signed up and went Yeah, I’m doing it. And when can we do this?  

Shannon Dunn  25:53

And I remember we kind of sitting down by the pool in the late afternoon, I vividly remember it sitting opposite you in sharing, introducing you to your Archetypes, and you kind of got three really core dominant ones. And then another three, that’s it kind of just under them, but we focus on those main three. And watching your response and feeling your emotions, with joy, and of course, and oh my god, this is really cool. Like all of that energy that came through was such a joy for me to witness. So tell us about that moment for you. And what you know, we’ve talked about the Pioneer Seeker and the Queen Ruler and tell us about your Archetypes. I’d love to hear more about how you’re using them in your business.

Amy Towle  26:32

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And even having this conversation and remembering them. It’s like, it’s that permission all over again. Because that’s what that was, for me. It’s just that understanding. It’s like, oh, that’s how I tick. Right?

Shannon Dunn  26:49

I’m sure you used the phrase, “Oh that makes sense now” like so many times.

Amy Towle  26:54

Yes, that’s something I would say. Yeah, it did. It just made sense. Because I understood why I wanted to do things a certain way. Yeah. Or understood the way that I wanted to do things. Oh makes sense now. I get that. And it was and I remember, you said this before, when you were talking about it. It’s like this permission. And that’s exactly what it felt like. It was just, especially when I think about like the Queen, and just the luxury that I like to bring to my experiences, it felt like it gave me permission, that I didn’t have to justify why I wanted it to be in nice rooms with air conditioning and good linen. 

Shannon Dunn  27:34

And that’s often an interesting attribute of the Queen Ruler. So for anyone who again, who hasn’t listened to the Archetype episode, the Queen Ruler is the regal leader of the Archetypes. So she’s not the only one with leadership potential, they all have leadership potential, but she’s the one more likely to lead on a large scale if she chooses to. Because some Queen Rulers are quite confronted by that potential as well. Again there are other Archetypes that are influence – we’re not one Archetype. So there’s other things going on too. But they love luxury. They like nice quality things. They’re not materialistic, but they want the very best that they can get in the time and in the moment, right. So you got to own that, which you have.

Amy Towle  28:17

Yeah. And that’s what that really gave me was permission to own that. To be able to say yes, when you come on retreat with me, it is luxurious and my welcome packs like it gave me permission to create the most beautiful welcome packs full of expensive shit, like stuff that we normally don’t buy for ourselves, that I could give the women who have said yes to working with me to celebrate them in the way that I wanted to,

Shannon Dunn  28:47

Which is such a great attribute of you being the role model as the leader in your space. Of giving others an opportunity to have those kinds of levels of experiences, as you said that often, we don’t give ourselves for whatever reason.

Amy Towle  29:05

It’s absolutely yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Shannon Dunn  29:09

So you haven’t just got the Queen’s like.. 

Amy Towle  29:13

She’s very dominant. 

Shannon Dunn  29:14

I know and she is and like when you say anyone who goes to have a look at Amy’s content, you will see these rich deep red colours that, to me feel like folding into velvet. And the gold and like all of that kind of very regal coloring. It’s not surprising to me that Queen Rulers tend to love those kind of rich colors. The metallic colors. Often Queen Rulers have a penchant for pinks and crimson as well. Like there’s just a thing I’ve noticed it’s kind of funny. So often in the presence of those kinds of colors come through for you makes sense that  Yoni massage and talking about the female body that you’ve got more of a red aspect to it. 

Amy Towle  29:59

Yeah. And the Pioneer Seeker, understanding that Archetype and seeing, basically just why I am the way that I am.

Shannon Dunn  30:11

Why you probably your whole life you felt like you kind of were different. Yeah, it’s as an Archetype it often it yes, it’s a disruptor, but she also thinks differently, she feels differently. she interacts with the world differently. And because of that often feels like a loner, often will talk about being the you know, use the phrase –  maybe it’s not necessarily appropriate to use these days – but black sheep,. That’s often a kind of I’m the black sheep of the family. I’m the black sheep of my entire community, of my industry. Can be lonely. But you say, how would it be when there’s lots of people doing what you’re doing in it? A Pioneer Seeker almost like breaks out in a rash, no. 

Amy Towle  30:52

But that’s so true. So true. Like, I really have a deep desire to do things differently. And, yeah, and that plays across in all areas of life, even my mothering and the way that I’m choosing to raise my daughter and the clothes that I dress her in. Like everything, to what I do in my business, and how I show up on social media and the courses that I run and the content that’s in them. And just this desire to push stuff on social media that makes people uncomfortable. I want to do that.  

Shannon Dunn  31:25

The world needs women like you. There’s a place for every Archetype and every combination of Archetypes for a reason. And I don’t necessarily, in the 1000 plus profiling kind of experiences I’ve led, and then we add in those that the Thrive Factor Coaches have done, there’s not that many Pioneer Seekers in the world, which makes sense. It’s falls in line with the whole energy of a Pioneer Seeker being the unique innovator and a disruptor. You know, if we had billions of you…

Shannon Dunn  31:52

But that would be the norm then. It would go against what the whole Pioneer Seeker stands for completely.

Amy Towle  31:53

The world would be chaotic.

Amy Towle  32:01

Yeah, that’s so true. And that combination of the two really just creates what my business is, and how it how it does what it does. Yeah. And the other, I just remember, is it the Mentor Teacher, that’s my third?  Yeah, that one, I think, is really, well it’s just the underlying foundation of everything that I do. And it was a big part of my practitioner training. And there’s just so much and that’s part of my bio, like leading the feminine revolution is that where that comes from. And I need to teach these women everything that I know and feel about myself and my body and my sexuality and what I have learnt. And like I said, my journey has informed what I do now, so being able to, to teach that and to coach women through that and to guide them is just, that’s what my business is all about. And the Queen and the Pioneer, which is how I do it.

Shannon Dunn  33:00

They’re almost like your brand expression, as you said, your methodology. But you’re right, when you have the Mentor Teacher Archetype, like I also do, we are here to be conduits of knowledge and wisdom. And it’s such an important thing that we remember the wisdom part because it’s not just about what we’ve learned, lived and learned experience and sharing that, it is about the wisdom effect of that as well. And it’s no surprise to me that the majority of women that have the Mentor Teacher Archetype, which in my world is in the high 90%, most of my clients have this Archetype that they end up teaching in some capacity through the mechanism of business. You and I to the extreme of starting actual certifications, that not every Mentor Teacher goes down that path, that’s definitely Amy’s influence of her Q Ruler and Pioneer Seeker, my influence of my Visionary Creator that we’ve gone to that level. 

Shannon Dunn  33:54

But teaching, you know, it’s rare that I will say to an Archetype, when I’m talking with a woman introducing to her Archetypes or coaching in it, this is something that I really think is a non-negotiable, but for Mentor Teacher I do. And it’s like, you need to be teaching, you need to monetize sharing your knowledge and wisdom, which is exactly what you’ve done. 

Shannon Dunn  34:13

Its an important role in the world. And there are others, I forget that there’s people out there that don’t have Mentor Teacher because there’s so many in my world. But there are people out there that don’t have this Archetype, but equally, there are Mentor Teachers that have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge and wisdom, activation, who are looking to people like you and I who’ve taken it to another level in terms of the way we teach and how we share, so very cool. As I said, Amy has other little Archetypes playing out there and things, but you really are the epitome, poster girl of the combination of those three.

Amy Towle  34:47

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And they all have such an important role in my business and what I do and it’s yeah, I can’t imagine not having those to do what I do.

Shannon Dunn  35:01

 Definitely. And I love that you shared early on about the use of the word permission, because I often talk about this whole interaction or getting to know your Archetypes as being a permission experience. And that’s not it’s like, I’m giving you permission by telling you what your Archetypes are, after you’ve taken the assessment to say, like, look what you can do. It’s like a permission to let yourself be who you are. Yes, yeah, it’s giving you a framework and a way to understand. Over the years, I’ve had people say to me, is this like a limiting thing? Because they’ve done different profiling or assessment personality things. And they felt like it’s kind of boxed them into something – no. The Thrive Factor Archeptyes s like a springboard to your possibility and potentiality.

Amy Towle  35:47

Definitely, because I feel like I was already doing all of that, but in a really, really, really small way.

Shannon Dunn  35:54

It was like, sitting there across from you. And then the conversations we had after that, both in Tuscany and after that. As I’ve said, you and I’ve spent time in Bali together, in other parts of Australia, chatted online and that kind of thing. But it was like, sitting there and watching you go, “I got nothing holding me back now”. It was honestly, Amy, such a beautiful thing to sit here and to see women stepping into who they are and running with it with gusto, right? It was like, yeah, okay, there’s nothing to get in my way now.

Amy Towle  36:30

Yeah, I can take up space now. I think that’s what it is. Because it is who you are already, but it’s about taking up the space of what that truly is. 

Shannon Dunn  36:44

For sure. And so many of us may have some sense of who we are. But there could be fear around actually being who and what that is. We may have had experiences through our life where we’ve heard things, been told things, observed other interactions through other people that have told us it’s not safe to be who we are, there’s so many different iterations of that right? A whole other episode.

Shannon Dunn  37:08

 So I’d like to do know now though, is like, what’s your you know, as a Queen Ruler, double Queen, you’ve got vision. The Queen Ruler, and the Visionary Creator of the 12 Archetypes are the two that have a big reaching vision. So what’s your big vision for women when it comes to their relationship with their bodies?

Amy Towle  37:27

Yeah, my vision is that women have a place to go…. or it’s that women can be able to fall in love with themselves. I know that sounds so cliche, I didn’t want to say that because it’s like, you know, that’s so commercial now.

Shannon Dunn  37:49

It seems to mainstream for your Pioneer Seeker.

Amy Towle  37:52

Exactly. I love to say, I want to make Yoni message boring. And what I mean by that is, I want it to be so accessible, so every day that you book in your monthly Yoni massage, like you do your pedicure. Because our bodies, our sexuality, our power, our pleasure, are just so normal and so everyday for us, that that’s what we do. And we’re so connected with it, that we talk about it all the time, and we go and have a Yoni massage every month. And we do that. That is what my vision is. So to have enough practitioners out there to make it accessible for every woman everywhere, so that we’re having these conversations, so that it becomes socially acceptable on social media to see these things and talk about these things. And so that women can actually learn their bodies. We don’t have an education system that teaches us about our basic anatomy, let alone our pleasure and sexual wellness.

Shannon Dunn  38:48

You and I both having come through the stream of nursing, I imagine your anatomy needed to be a lot more than mine, because you went down the midwifery path. But in terms of basic human anatomy, the reproductive system, as it was referred to, was what we learned, but in a very scientific way. I understand that. 

Amy Towle  39:08

Yeah, but when we educate children, we teach boys about wet dreams. And then we teach girls about periods. Yeah. Like, you know, where’s the pleasure aspect? For girls, for women, and so that’s, yeah, that’s my vision is to make all of this stuff, normal, accessible. So the women learn their bodies, they know their bodies, they know their anatomy, they know what they’re capable of. And the biggest thing that comes from that is for women, that is where our power and creativity comes from. So imagine what you can do if you’re connected with that part of yourself.

Shannon Dunn  39:44

Right? And stepping into the next question that has just come to then,  if somebody is listening in and they are feeling intrigued about going and having a Yoni massage, but at the same time, don’t know what even to do, don’t  know what  to expect, all of the fears and the I don’t know what this is actually going to be like, and what would people think if I told them… like that kind of stuff that comes to peoples minds, right? What’s a couple of things that you could share that are curious, but don’t even kind of know what to do next, because of all the barriers that are coming up for them? 

Amy Towle  40:25

Well, Yoni massage is as different for everyone because of where she’s at with her body and her trauma. But a yoni massage is a space where you can come in to be held in your absolute most vulnerability, and your absolute most power all at once. And it’s a space where you can address your physical body, your sexual body, and whatever emotions and stuff that comes with that, because you know, you’re gonna get naked and have a practitioner, look at you, see your body. And there’s women out there who don’t have mirrors in the house. No, no, because they don’t want to, or haven’t gotten naked in front of their partner for 20 years. 

Amy Towle  41:08

So that’s a really big deal. Even just that. Standing and getting naked in front of someone and be seen is huge. So it’s really about why do you want to do it? What is your intention? What do you want to get out of this? Because the Yoni massage can do everything and nothing.  It all comes down to the woman, your intention, and why are you there. And it’s also no quick fix. It’s not a magic tool that’s going to make you orgasm better or fix their birth trauma, or take away the menopausal symptoms or any of that stuff. It all comes down to you. Its putting the woman back in the driver’s seat. Are you ready to take self responsibility for what you’re facing, feeling, processing, whatever. That’s what yoni massage is about. It is about putting you back in your feminine power and taking the driver’s seat. 

Amy Towle  41:56

So are you ready to do that? is the biggest thing. And then yeah, what is your intention? What do you want to feel? What do you want to get out of it? And then being open to that looking like different things, feeling like different things, and maybe not what you expect it to. And the yoni massage is about 50% of it. And the process afterwards is the next 50%.

Shannon Dunn  42:22

Yeah. So good to know. And, you know, I’m a big one for if you’re curious about something, go and do your own exploration. As a starting point, follow Amy’s content. Because she talks a lot about the experience and the benefits and those kinds of things and just let that be a space you sit in for a little while. While you decide what you want to do for yourself and how you want to do it. So that it is beneficial.

Amy Towle  42:47

And do your research. Please do your research. Really look at who you want to go to as a practitioner. Ask them questions, ask them for testimonials, ask them where they trained. Don’t hesitate to ask those questions, because you want to know that you’re going to someone who’s actually qualified, trained properly and holds a standard of practice. I have a list on my website of all of my practitioners if you want to find someone around Australia and New Zealand. This year, we have American practitioners training, which is amazing. So you’re really do your research before you say yes to any practitioner.

Shannon Dunn  43:23

That goes for so many industries, coaching as well. But yes, you’re right. All right. I’m going to in a moment, I’m going to ask you some questions. I’ve asked all the guests that we’ve had on the show but for now, last question, we got to talk about your evolution into motherhood. Right. So when I first met Amy, like, its not like I thought you wouldn’t have gone down or become a Mum. 

Amy Towle  43:47

I did. I thought I wouldn’t.

Shannon Dunn  43:49

Kind of, where is she going to fit this in kind of thing? And then you know, you now have a beautiful daughter that at the end of 2022 was 2. Has your mission and vision like changed or evolved since becoming a Mum to your gorgeous daughter?

Amy Towle  44:02

Yes and no. Six months before I conceived I had decided I wasn’t going to be a mother.  It wasn’t gonna have children. I love my life. I created this incredible life. I had a business that was flourishing. I was traveling all over the world. I lived in Bali, everything was great. The urge to be a mother had left me. I was good. Six months later. So yeah, it was huge. It was really, really huge for me, I think it took me the first half of my pregnancy to accept that I was going to be a mother and to really…because I was 36 And yeah, it was really big thing because I acknowledged everything was going to change.

Amy Towle  44:47

And then I had to go on the journey of becoming a mother and taking control and finding courage and birthing how I wanted to do being a plus size woman. The mainstream medical system tells me that comes with all kinds of risks but there was no way I was going to birth my baby in a hospital, she was going to be born at home and I was going to do it my way. Surrounded by beautiful midwives that I loved and trusted. And that took a lot of courage. And you know, I know this system, I’m in the system, and I had to say no to my colleagues. So yeah, having a home birth and deepening that level of trust within myself, and my body was really, really huge. The first six months was tough. I was introduced to anxiety for the first time in my life, which was just really, really big and, and also, my partner lives in Bali.  And I left just the beginning of Covid in Australia, thinking I’d be gone for a couple months, found out I was pregnant in quarantine.

Shannon Dunn  45:52

I remember you sharing that story. Yeah. So you’re coming back to Australia just because the borders were shutting. LIke you said, couple of months, all be done….

Amy Towle  46:04

Yeah. So then I got stuck here. So he was there, I was here. And so I did it on my own, had the birth with him on video call. And then continued to parent on my own and navigate that journey of long distance relationship, parenting on my own, all that sort of stuff as well and took that first year to just really ride the tumultuous f*#king roller coaster of becoming a mother, that transition into mother and I’m so grateful that I invested in good care and good nurturing support afterwards, I had a postnatal doula. I did all the things…

Shannon Dunn  46:41

I remember you sharing what you were doing and why. To me, it was like, of course, because I know you and I know that you practice what you teach and your values and sharing those is important, but for a lot of women watching that, and seeing what you were sharing, may have been surprised that you’ve gone to that level of investing in support, both physically, emotionally, financially.

Amy Towle  47:07

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I probably spent about $10,000 on my birthing postnatal experience, because for me, I am worth it.  I didn’t need a house. I didn’t need a wedding. I didn’t need any of that stuff. For me, making sure that I brought a soul into this world in a way that was not traumatic for both of us., far outweighed anything else. And it was worth it. Oh, my God, it was worth it. 

Amy Towle  47:37

So that first year was really just allowing myself to go through that transition and everything. And then the second year, last year, I went, Okay, now I need to bring back the two,  the mother and Template of She and deliver. And last year was my biggest year in business yet. Yeah, I almost tripled my annual income.  I got an incredible business coach. And I took everything next level. And it has just been phenomenal and the depth that she has given me, my daughter, in what I do, the boundaries that I now put in place. Just the clarity with everything that I do, and bringing her into that space.

Amy Towle  48:21

She’s two years old, and she’s already attended two retreats. Two yoni massage retreats. She’s walked through the temple space where women are giving and receiving yoni massage. She’s heard women release, and cry, and laugh and orgasm, and all of that at two years old. And that is what I want. That’s how I want to raise her with this being her norm. And really riding this tumultuous thing of society says we shouldn’t expose children to sexual things. And then her mother’s got all these photos on the internet, and all this stuff. And processing that. Because there is definitely still an ounce of people pleaser in me that she has amplified. So really trying to navigate that and just trust that she chose me. Careful what you wish for!  And that she came along at the perfect time, and was exactly what I needed. And now we’re riding this out together. 

Shannon Dunn  49:25

I know. I was saying to Amy before we started recording that in looking at images and reading stories that Amy’s sharing, like I can see you in her.  I can see that the boldness and the sassy and the like, you know, this is how things are going to be. And at two. I love it so much when I see that spirit in young girls. And I, not having been able to go down that path of being a mother, I am just like, how can I support all of you that are. That have got these big spirited young women in your world, because they are going to do so much good in the world. That’s kind of my Visionary Creator instincts of it all. So yeah, it’s very, very cool. I love it. So watch this space. We’ll see what she’s doing right. By the time she hits five and six and goes to school. And the next thing, its gonna be so good. 

Shannon Dunn  50:17

Alright darling. Questions I ask you all the guests that come on the show to tie us back in and remind us that you know, She Leaves She Thrives talking about leadership and thriving as well. So what role does leadership play in your life and business? Not a small question.

Amy Towle  50:33

Everything I’ve just said. For me, it’s everything. Because – and this is what I teach my practitioners – is you are the demonstration. You must lead by example, or don’t do the work. Don’t do this work. Don’t do it. Don’t waste my time. Don’t come and train with me. Yes. And for me, it’s everything that I walk my talk, like, I hold that to myself as well, like that is so important. And I have to and it’s really hard sometimes because it requires real deep vulnerability, and honesty and facing some big stuff. But leadership it’s everything in this work, because my practitioners, and I, have to be the demonstration to all the women out there who are scared. Who are scared to go to do anything,  to book a yoni massage, to read my content, to visit my website, to go to a women’s circle, to buy a jade egg, or a glass dildo ,or any of that sort of stuff. We have to show her that it’s okay, that it’s safe, that it’s empowering, that you can do it. So leadership is yeah, if you don’t have it, don’t be here.

Shannon Dunn  51:46

I get it. I know. I understand it. And it’s not something that’s new for me to talk about. But I still love that it’s a new discovery for a lot of people. Not about external leadership. And that traditional kind of view of leadership as being a person standing at the front of a lot of people. It’s like, but no, how do I actually lead my life? How do I lead my business? So, so cool. So how do you know when you’re thriving?

Amy Towle  52:14

Ah, I think when it feels good.

Amy Towle  52:19

And when you’re not surviving. When you’re not scrounging and that feeling of oh, it’s not going to work? And what if I don’t get people to sign up? Or what if I don’t get enough money to pay the bills. Or what if I can’t do this….? I think the thriving is when there’s balance, and when it feels good. And sure there’s going to be challenges and things that aren’t going to work sometimes – that’s part of it all. And I guess, an indicator of thriving then, is how quickly you bounce back from that. Whether you sit in the shit of “oh, it didn’t work and my launch was a failure and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah”, or whether you go f*@k, okay, that didn’t work. What’s next? What have I learned from that? Keep moving. 

Shannon Dunn  52:58

That really to me is an expression of where the leadership comes in. Being self-led is being able to be honest with yourself,  be in a space of truth and look at things and go “okay, well, something didn’t work. It doesn’t feel good right now. But what can I do to really…”, What’s the stuff I’ve been talking about more recently with my clients is that really recognize the influencer that you are on your own life. Yeah. And everything that you do. And that, yes, things may not feel fabulous in some particular moment or experience. But you always have an opportunity, a choice about how you respond to that.

Amy Towle  53:36

Yeah, absolutely. Always.  There is no exception.

Shannon Dunn  53:41

So how can people connect with you the easiest, like we’ll make sure kind of all the links you’ve shared with us, but tell everyone now. 

Amy Towle  53:48

Yeah, well, my favorite place to hang out is on Instagram. So that is @temple.of.she. And that’s where a lot of my cool stuff goes. And otherwise on my website, and templeofshe.com.au. I do also have YouTube channel, which has loads of great videos, all my free webinars are up there,  lots of information. Like if you just want to know what is a yoni massage. There’s videos there. All kinds of educational content, all sorts of stuff on the YouTube channel there too, which is not censored by social media, obviously. Yes. Yeah. Or Facebook, Temple Of She, is where you can find me. And if you head to the website, you can also join the mailing list where you get the real juice.

Shannon Dunn  54:27

Exactly, yeah, right. Literally. I love it. So my darling friend, what’s a kind of a final piece of wisdom that you can share with the ambitious, impact making souls that are tuning in today?

Amy Towle  54:42

I think for me, it’s about remembering that you have this body and what she can offer you in what you’re creating. You know, we spend so much I’m in our head or out there and planning and this, that and the other but come back here. Come back to the body. I get my practitioners lay a hand on your vulva and on your heart and just take a few deep breaths. And see what’s present in you. Because that is the center where we have our creativity. If you want to write a book, and you’re stuck on a chapter, tap in there. If you want to create a program or anything, tap into this body that you have, it’s a real part of our reality. So use it, that would be my biggest.

Shannon Dunn  55:33

Again, now I’ve got 1000 more questions to ask you. But we will wrap up today. I’m not averse to having guests come back on the podcast at a later date in time anyway. So you know, part two. Yeah, often it is the case. You  never know who may be  in your ears again at some future date and time. B

Shannon Dunn  55:52

ut, Amy, thank you so much for saying yes and coming in chatting with me. It was very cool to talk about something that needs to be talked about. It kind of with this round of recordings I’ve done with incredible guests like yourself, we’ve talked about more things like ethical business and coaching practice, through the menopause, through to other things to do with hormone, through to yoni massage, like we’ve got all right coming out. Topics that need to be talked about, and they are relevant to all of us. Whoever you are listening, I know majority of our audience is likely female or identifies as female. Because that’s who the podcast was created for. If you’re not that – welcome, you’re just as welcome as everyone else. But also, you know, there’s something in this for everybody. So let’s  talk about more of these things. Because I don’t believe in keeping them hidden. And I’m not a Pioneer Seeker, so it would be a whole other level of interesting with that in charge as well. 

Shannon Dunn  56:47

But thank you for saying yes and joining me. Listeners, thank you for tuning in. And I hope that you have got something out of the conversation that Amy and I have created for you today. Even if it’s just one thing that you take away, I’m really a big believer in creating these conversations, and also the solo episodes I share with you, to get you to pause a bit longer and to think differently. And with that, to consider the action you’re going to take in response to that. That to me is really personal leadership. I defined personal leadership, goodness me, 14-15 years ago, when I was first exploring what became the Thrive Factor Framework and the Archetypes and I looked at personal leadership has to lived expression of the choices you make and the action you take in response to those choices. So you always have a choice.

Shannon Dunn  57:30

 We’ve said that already go and exercise some choices for the wellbeing of yourself, and those that you love and care about, the world at large if you’re like Amy and I and you’ve got the kind of big visionary aspect. Because when we thrive, there’s a ripple effect is activated and everybody has a potential to thrive in a much more richer and nourishing way that can only benefit the world. And that’s the way I look at it anyway. 

Shannon Dunn  57:54

So, Amy, thank you darling. Talk to you again soon. Make sure you’ve subscribed if you haven’t already. Follow. Again, if you’ve found something of value in this episode, share it with one other soul minimum. Yeah, there’ll be someone that you may have had in mind when you were listening to what we were talking about today. Share this with them. Explain why you feel it would be a value for them to listen to. And that is also you activating more thriving out there in the world and the beautiful ripple effect. Have a beautiful day. Stay Fabulous and remember you were born to thrive.